Which Linux? Be Kind…

[David]

It’s still a system that I would like to install and get running on my CNC router as I think it would be easier to add on things like tool length sensors and such.

 

[Arbutus]

As an ancient U*X user, developer and contributor, I have forgotten far more than I know now. On a recent upgrade from Linux Mint to UBUNTU 20.04, (a four release upgrade) many of the dependent libraries were unresolved. Now this can be a nightmare especially when there are third party apps that use those libraries. About an hour into the upgrade and I was out of my depth, so I turned to my AI buddy, chatGPT.

Well, to cut a long story short, by carefully explaining where the installation was failing, the AI steered me through the very complex steps to fix the problem. It was really very effective.

So I know the U*X and Reddit forums are a PITA sometimes, with some very arrogant and aggressive individuals online. The AI however is pretty good at finding answers, if you ask the right questions.

 

[gerritv]

All of the above is why I chose to use Tormach's PathPilot. Runs on an ancient version of Mint but who cares, it runs. Tormach provides free updates. You don't ever attempt to upgrade the OS anyway on a CNC machine, there is no point.

I was a programmer at AES Data (word processros) in the 1980's on Unix, and then again at ISG Technologies (medical imaging) and at Solect Technology (IP billing systems). All on various flavours of Unix, and every time you looked for help online or off you got attitude. I have learned to avoid Linux for the same reasons. Endless conflicting updates, compile programs from source but can't resolve dependencies etc. are common issues. And incompatabilities between flavours. Worse in the Sys 3/Sys 5/BSD HP/SGI/Solaris days but still present.

For LinuxCNC there are one or two threads on their forum that provide good support, subjects such as "version 2.x.x easy install" are the ones to look for. Still not easy IMO (the page counts are high) but the support is there. Pick a version, esp. for RPi, and stick with it, don't chase the latest versions of anything, just use it. Updates will drive you crazy and take away from machine time.

Whatever you do, use a Remora or Mesa card; stay far, far away from the parallel port. Or, for the Original poster, use one of the common methods to install Win 11 on unsupported hw and use your machine

gerrit

 

[Arbutus]

I don't want to hijack whydontu's thread but I have basically the same question except for a PC that is used for day to day regular PC type stuff not CNC. What I would like to accomplish is:
1) Fresh install of Linux on old iMac (wipe all existing), looking for suggestions?
2) Create a virtual machine under that Linux that will run the PC type programs that I can't live without that are presently on a Win7 machine.
3) Somehow get that complete Win7 and all programs under it into that Win7 VM running under whatever version of Linux you suggest.
4) Start migrating to open source alternatives to the programs presently running under Win7

My wife is donating her old i5 iMac with 8G ram and 1TB SSD to the cause.

I have not had any luck installing Linux on an older Mac. The problems are the display drivers which seem to be Apple specific.

 

[whydontu]

So after another dive into Linux, it looks like it doesn't add anything of value to my setup.

I use an ancient drafting program called CadStd, originally bought it for Win95 and still use it. I know all its tricks and can draw my simple stuff very quickly. CadStd exports to DXF, Estlcam imports DXF, select tool paths and tools, export NC file to Estlcam CNC interpreter, Estlcam uses a modified Arduino GRBL controller. Load the material to be machined, go to home, zero axis, zero cutter, hit go.

It doesn't look like LinuxCNC can work with a GRBL controller, so I'd likely need to build or buy a new hardware interface between LinuxCNC and my physical stepper and spindle hardware. By the time I do this I'm probably looking at the same $$ outlay as just buying a newer supported PC. Lenovo Tiny PC with 15-9500T cpu runs current Win11 and costs $250.

 

[jcdammeyer]

So after another dive into Linux, it looks like it doesn't add anything of value to my setup.

I use an ancient drafting program called CadStd, originally bought it for Win95 and still use it. I know all its tricks and can draw my simple stuff very quickly. CadStd exports to DXF, Estlcam imports DXF, select tool paths and tools, export NC file to Estlcam CNC interpreter, Estlcam uses a modified Arduino GRBL controller. Load the material to be machined, go to home, zero axis, zero cutter, hit go.

It doesn't look like LinuxCNC can work with a GRBL controller, so I'd likely need to build or buy a new hardware interface between LinuxCNC and my physical stepper and spindle hardware. By the time I do this I'm probably looking at the same $$ outlay as just buying a newer supported PC. Lenovo Tiny PC with 15-9500T cpu runs current Win11 and costs $250.

Your original question was which LinuxCNC.
If you have hardware that is working and can download G-Code to it from whatever CAD you use then I wouldn't change.

If your hardware now has limitations because you want to add N and M special tools not supported by your current version then it's time to rethink what is available.

Pretty well everything, be it Windows or Linux, uses some sort of USB or Ethernet connected dedicated hardware interface box. The days of a newer PC and a hardware parallel port that works are gone for the most part.

The least expensive route is the MESA 7i92 at about $109US.

7I92 picture

store.mesanet.com

It's not nearly as expansive as some of the other more expensive stuff that can add tons of extra I/O.

A used fairly new PC for $50 along with keyboard and mouse and I also recommend a pendant of some sort.

Overall price to get into that is still in the $250 range.

 

[jcdammeyer]

All of the above is why I chose to use Tormach's PathPilot. Runs on an ancient version of Mint but who cares, it runs. Tormach provides free updates. You don't ever attempt to upgrade the OS anyway on a CNC machine, there is no point.

I was a programmer at AES Data (word processros) in the 1980's on Unix, and then again at ISG Technologies (medical imaging) and at Solect Technology (IP billing systems). All on various flavours of Unix, and every time you looked for help online or off you got attitude. I have learned to avoid Linux for the same reasons. Endless conflicting updates, compile programs from source but can't resolve dependencies etc. are common issues. And incompatabilities between flavours. Worse in the Sys 3/Sys 5/BSD HP/SGI/Solaris days but still present.

For LinuxCNC there are one or two threads on their forum that provide good support, subjects such as "version 2.x.x easy install" are the ones to look for. Still not easy IMO (the page counts are high) but the support is there. Pick a version, esp. for RPi, and stick with it, don't chase the latest versions of anything, just use it. Updates will drive you crazy and take away from machine time.

Whatever you do, use a Remora or Mesa card; stay far, far away from the parallel port. Or, for the Original poster, use one of the common methods to install Win 11 on unsupported hw and use your machine

gerrit

I haven't figured out how to add path pilot but I'd certainly like to give it a try.

 

[slow-poke]

I was going to use a rPi for my lathe, I went as far as installing LinuxCNC, however I wanted a touchscreen and after three attempts from Amazon cheap but good touchscreens don't seem to co-exist. Someone on the Linux forum suggested looking for a used Lenovo Yoga, so I did and found one for $100. The Yoga has a fantastic touchscreen and much more powerful than a pi. That was really good advice I also picked up a Lenovo dock for the Yoga, it has a bunch of extra ports etc. So a used Yoga might be an option, it's certainly working for me.

 

[Mike R]

Pick a version, esp. for RPi, and stick with it, don't chase the latest versions of anything, just use it. Updates will drive you crazy and take away from machine time.

This.
I still have LinuxCNC on my Emco compact 5, and I now have zero intent of updating / upgrading it. I went through hell as a non-programmer type when I updated the version of Linuxcnc from I think it was 2.7.X to 2.8 or 2.9.X. In my mind it should have been a walk in the park. No hardware is changing, just run an update, change a few minor things and be done. Instead it broke just about everything possible - the hardest of which to fix was my brute force programmed tool changer (done before ChatGPT days). Did the same for my mill. I'm sure my mills configurations were still broken when I sold it after doing the update to it.

The only valid reasons to update / upgrade are that a feature you really wanted in the first place is now available, or a fix to an issue that really bothers you or blocks you is available.
Unless you enjoy playing with that stuff, then go ahead.

As for LinuxCNC version, I mostly just did the full ISO download from LinuxCNC and went with that. I haven't looked lately but has that changed?

 

[jcdammeyer]

This.
I still have LinuxCNC on my Emco compact 5, and I now have zero intent of updating / upgrading it. I went through hell as a non-programmer type when I updated the version of Linuxcnc from I think it was 2.7.X to 2.8 or 2.9.X. In my mind it should have been a walk in the park. No hardware is changing, just run an update, change a few minor things and be done. Instead it broke just about everything possible - the hardest of which to fix was my brute force programmed tool changer (done before ChatGPT days). Did the same for my mill. I'm sure my mills configurations were still broken when I sold it after doing the update to it.

The only valid reasons to update / upgrade are that a feature you really wanted in the first place is now available, or a fix to an issue that really bothers you or blocks you is available.
Unless you enjoy playing with that stuff, then go ahead.

As for LinuxCNC version, I mostly just did the full ISO download from LinuxCNC and went with that. I haven't looked lately but has that changed?

I too cursed that change from 2.7 to 2.8 where they decided LinuxCNC should have both axis and joints. Other than that it was a pretty easy upgrade. The problem is that the AXIS user interface which I'm still using didn't really change so from a user perspective nothing was different and since my machined didn't do strange things requiring both joints and axis it was a strange upgrade.

The only other reason I can see to change to 2.9 from 2.8 (which I haven't yet) is if I bought new PC due to a failure of the old and the 2.8 doesn't run on the newer hardware. Along with the reasons @Mike R gave.

I started with MACH3 and a parallel port. Newer machines don't have a parallel port and the plug in boards are suspect as to capabilities. So for MACH either a USB or Ethernet Smooth Stepper or something like that. Since my system was already wired with an expensive BreakOutBoard designed for parallel ports I was able to dual boot the PC to run MACH3 or LinuxCNC 2.7.x with the USB Smooth Stepper or the MESA 7i92H which also presents the I/O in a parallel port format.

MACH3 would have been good enough except I had this harmonic drive for the 4th axis and the STMBL AC Servo controller kit. I wasn't ever able to get the 'fault' output from a low power supply voltage to be handled properly and this is where LinuxCNC shines over the turnkey systems.

Got some weird hardware or an old machine? Don't want to go to open loop stepper motors? Some sort of strange tool changer or draw bar?

 

[Tomc938]

I've been using Mint also for many years. Used lots of others as well. Can't say I've had a bad flavour. Most modern versions are plug and play and function as good or better than Win XX when it comes to hardware compatibility.

Currently MacOS, but with my evolving thoughts on all things American, I'm looking at going Asus (Taiwan) OS free and getting Mint or Ubuntu onto it in a couple years when I need an upgrade. Buy it from London Drugs and I'm 100% un-American.

 

[David]

I'm looking at going Asus (Taiwan) OS free and getting Mint or Ubuntu onto it in a couple years when I need an upgrade.

I didn't know one could buy a laptop without an OS. Or did my non-computer saavy brain miss something?

 

[pdentrem]

You can get a PC without OS but not at a big box store.

 

[Susquatch]

Buy it anyplace WITH an OS, then pitch the OS and install whatever you want.

 

[pdentrem]

Or make it a dual boot.

 

[Tomc938]

I didn't know one could buy a laptop without an OS. Or did my non-computer saavy brain miss something?

It might just be a matter of me making a point with the store tech. "I don't want Windows". But it will make me feel better. @Susquatch is probably right. Most places you are stuck with it, but doesn't mean you have to use it. (although dual boot is probably a safer way to go for those apps that are Win only)

 

[Dan Dubeau]

I don't want to highjack the thread, but stick em up!. On my Tormach computer running pathpilot, I cannot find the wireless adapter that came with it when I bought it. I guess they are something special from tormach at $40 + shipping, but is there cheaper alternatives that would work with (mint? I guess is what's running on it?). I'm not too smrt when it come to linux. I suffered through a college course on UNIX back in the day because we HAD to learn it, because no quality CAD software would EVER run on windows....apparently...But I have forgotten everything I learned about that stuff, and more .

 

[Mike R]

I run a Canakit usb wifi adapter that came with a RPi 2B (i.e. kinda old and I guess intended for Linux), and it works no issues. If you have a USB wifi adapter just give it a try. I think it used to be an issue due to the underlying Linux version, but I think if your on 2.x its ok now... I could be wrong - still new to my Tormach.

BTW - for this type of thing I like Amazon (even though its US) - buy it, try and return if it doesn't work. no risk (but I have a prime account)
search for raspberry pi compatible (it runs a linux version) usb wifi and you should be good.
$10 https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-TL-WN...prefix=usb+wifi+raspberry,aps,95&sr=8-10&th=1

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Thanks Mike. I ordered one, hopefully it's pretty plug and play.

 

[slow-poke]

FWIW, the PC I use for LinuxCNC for my mill does not have a built in WiFi, so I purchased a similar WiFi dongle, and (as usual with Linux), I just plugged it in and it worked instantly, no drivers no hassle just works.

"Linux has detected a WiFi dongle, would you like to connect to xyz wifi, if so please enter the Wifi password"

Plugged it in, entered the wifi password (once) and FireFox that comes pre-installed with LinuxCNC works. I plug it in whenever I need it, it remembers the password.