Reasonable price for a Myford Lathe

[trevj]

Yeah, but a Toyota Tercel was $4995. You get get a little Susuki for 3200. US, but the dollar was close to par. Whats the cheapest car now? I remember in the past the Myfords being the better part of a mid level car. Not out of range for the average guy, but he had scrimp and save for awhile and getting it was a big deal. They weren't overpriced, just build to decent standard, not Schaublin or Hardinge, but a decent standard.

Dunno what's the lowest priced car, but can say that around the time frame in question, mid 2000's, I paid LESS than a new untooled Myford, for a pretty well equipped New off the Lot Toyota Corolla.

Yeah, it was a stretch, to pay out $3k for a new tooled up machine, but it was an attainable one.

I actually had a quote from South Bend at around that time, and they wanted a little over $10K for a 9 inch swing, it did not come as a surprise to me that they tanked soon after. Prices went up value delivered did not.

 

[kstrauss]

For price comparison, I notice that there is currently a listing on this board for a slightly rusty BusyBee 2227 for $2250 with no obvious tooling.

 

[Tecnico]

I wouldn't be too fussy about it being a recent machine. All Myford S7 (not ML7) are virtually identical other than the paint colour (old ones grey, recent ones green). What really matters is that it has been well cared for. The QC gearbox is a definite plus and I love my power crossfeed. If you're lucky you can find one with 4-jaw and 3-jaw chucks and maybe a faceplate. The 0xA QCTP sold by Accusize works well and may be more cost effective than purchasing addition Dickson tool holders.

In a newer machine you’re more likely to get a QC gearbox plus a power cross slide and a Dicksons QCTP which is why I made that point. The older machine in the ad you referred to has none of those.

Features will dictate price, I’d rather have the capability so I’d lean toward the more recent machines. Buyer’s choice.

I recently bought 5 tool holders for my Dicksons QCTP from RDG in the UK for about $140 and I thought that was quite reasonable if not a bargain. Definitely not offshore quality either. I see they have a tool post & holders set for a fair bit less than the Accusize OXA offering.

D

 

[trevj]

In a newer machine you’re more likely to get a QC gearbox plus a power cross slide and a Dicksons QCTP which is why I made that point. The older machine in the ad you referred to has none of those.

Features will dictate price, I’d rather have the capability so I’d lean toward the more recent machines. Buyer’s choice.

I recently bought 5 tool holders for my Dicksons QCTP from RDG in the UK for about $140 and I thought that was quite reasonable if not a bargain. Definitely not offshore quality either. I see they have a tool post & holders set for a fair bit less than the Accusize OXA offering.

D

I found out about Tripan Tools posts,and have been a fan since. Swiss made, priced accordingly though... I built my own knock-off, using my lathe and a milling slide. Works great!

The 111 size is the appropriate one for a Myford.

I set up and milled a couple or three foot long sticks of the tool holder blanks, and sliced them off, so now I have a small bucket of them on hand.

 

[Intensemonerider]

I am probably going to get flack for this but I have to draw attention to the fact that much of the value is nostalgia and pride of ownership from what I have seen with Myfords.

I have a formal education in engineering and metallurgy and I can confidently say that from a metallurgical perspective it appears that the current cast iron quality between Asian lathes and Myfords in more or less the same. Trust me I can’t stand a lot of Chinese made garbage tools as the steel (not cast iron) quality is junk. but I have seen countless cross section photos online of both of them after they have cracked/ruptured and grain structure looks identical. Additionally, I have done some lab analysis between old school European cast and Asian cast-no tangible difference. You don’t see voids or alloy/contamination banding. Myford as well as every other lathe manufacturer that I am aware of does not use eutectic homogeneous iron as it is or was patented by Viessman/Dedetrich. Cast iron is almost always scrap iron full stop, even when looking at the top foundry’s in Europe. I have personally been to the foundry in Strasbourg where they produce the most state of the art flexible cast iron (all recycled scrap).

The fact that some or many of the Myfords don’t have hardened bed or case hardened bearing surfaces is in my opinion unacceptable for the price.

It seems like these machines are like the old school Jaguars, cool old cars but not worth the wildly high price point. Myfords are probably a lot more reliable then old Jags…lol

 

[Susquatch]

I am probably going to get flack for this but I have to draw attention to the fact that much of the value is nostalgia and pride of ownership from what I have seen with Myfords.

Please allow me to be the first to throw some flack atcha!

Please understand that I'm not a believer one way or the other. I do have a Gearhead Lathe.

The primary flack I would throw at you is that the material a machine is made out of is only one small part of what makes it a really good machine or a piece of junk. Other critical elements include its basic and detailed design, it's quality, it's precision, it's assembly, it's workmanship, it's ease of use, it's reliability and durability, it's price, etc etc. It's availability, popularity, nostalgia also factor in to the equation through its knowledge base and parts availability.

An excellent lathe might be made of crappy metal, and a crappy lathe might be made of excellent metal. It's the end result of all the pieces and processes that makes it what it is.

Just my opinion for whatever it's worth.

 

[trevj]

The fact that some or many of the Myfords don’t have hardened bed or case hardened bearing surfaces is in my opinion unacceptable for the price.

You really have to be more specific, when you start talking price, as the prices have varied a LOT over the years, both new, and used. With around 140,000 ML7's, and around 168,000 Super7's out there, it is hard to claim that they did something wrong.

Unlike, say, the South Bend 9 inch lathes (the REAL South Bend, not the current marketing iteration!), Myfords were from the start, aimed directly at the Hobbiest, and compared to what else was out there when they were introduced, they were a pretty high step up, for the guys that could afford them. If you get a chance, flip through some 1940's-1950's era Model Engineer magazines, and look at what they were competing with, as well as what utter crap the rest of the market was flooded with. Most of it makes the $300 Mini Lathe look pretty darn good in comparison!

For what niche they were meant to fill, they are a pretty nice machine, and can be got for the same money as buying a Chinese lathe that still has lumps of casting sand available in it's corners...

For a quality machine, with an Industrial grade build, you need to pay even more, and shop for the likes of a Schaublin 120 or 135! Whole different world, and meant for a whole different audience!

 

[DavidR8]

 

[Tom Kitta]

You should be able to get a good condition Myford S7 with a few accessories for somewhat less than a new BusyBee 10x22. See https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/kingston-on/myford-super-7-metal-lathe/1665199659 for a currently active advert. I have no particular knowledge of this lathe; it popped up on Kijiji.

Note that this is in Ontario and this is without a gearbox.

In Alberta a ML7R with gearbox in good condition with a few accessories and original base is around 3500 CAD. A super 7 with a gearbox is well over 5000.

A ML7 in Alberta without a gearbox had a hard time selling for 1500.

I.e. at least in AB lack of gearbox more or less kills the price.

 

[kstrauss]

I can't resist commenting on the video. If you don't have time then watch only the last few minutes when the narrator admits that most of his criticisms are wrong!

Also note that he is discussing a ML7 rather than a S7; many of his comments are irrelevant for a S7. For examples, back gear is engaged with a lever on a S7 rather than requiring tools, S7 bearings are ball and conical bronze rather than white metal (Babbitt?), an S7 has no finicky oilers, an S7 cross slide has resettable dials. My lathe came with both a leadscrew handwheel and a threading dial but I've never found a need for either.

What he is really saying is the great advice of: "when purchasing a used lathe of any brand try to find a well outfitted one" rather than having to pay high prices in the future for individually purchased rare accessories.

 

[trevj]

I can't resist commenting on the video. If you don't have time then watch only the last few minutes when the narrator admits that most of his criticisms are wrong!

Also note that he is discussing a ML7 rather than a S7; many of his comments are irrelevant for a S7. For examples, back gear is engaged with a lever on a S7 rather than requiring tools, S7 bearings are ball and conical bronze rather than white metal (Babbitt?), an S7 has no finicky oilers, an S7 cross slide has resettable dials. My lathe came with both a leadscrew handwheel and a threading dial but I've never found a need for either.

What he is really saying is the great advice of: "when purchasing a used lathe of any brand try to find a well outfitted one" rather than having to pay high prices in the future for individually purchased rare accessories.

Most of his points are just time filling babble.

He wants to directly compare the cheapest of the Myford machines, to industrial built, and priced (when new) machinery. He has missed entirely, that one of the drivers for desirability for the Myford, is that one guy can generally hoof the lathe in to a basement or attic space shop and has very limited space needs.
He drones on about the non-hardened bed as if it is some big deal, then admit that on his 60 years old example, he can find no wear to speak of...

He personifies a statement that was made over on Practicalmachinist, where it was stated outright, that there is nobody on the planet cheaper than a Brit, when it comes to expectations when buying machine tools. But overall, he speaks with great confidence and authority, about stuff he mostly seems to have no clue about. My general impression, is that after watching that video, I want the time back...

"I want my 15 minutes back. That was mostly babble, and full of contradictory, disorganized information."

 

[Susquatch]

"I want my 15 minutes back. That was mostly babble, and full of contradictory, disorganized information."

This is exactly how I feel about MOST YouTube videos. I want my time back!

No, I didn't watch the video. I don't plan to either. I'm just making a general statement about about my feelings on YouTube.

 

[Tom Kitta]

This is exactly how I feel about MOST YouTube videos. I want my time back!

No, I didn't watch the video. I don't plan to either. I'm just making a general statement about about my feelings on YouTube.

Just watch videos on fast forward and skip a lot. That is what I do.

 

[Susquatch]

Just watch videos on fast forward and skip a lot. That is what I do.

I'm trying Tom. @Dabbler, @David_R8, and @jcdammeyer gave me the same advice. It isn't so easy to do on a phone. But I'm trying.

The approach also assumes there actually is some value in there somewhere. I don't often find that to be the case. For the most part, I've taken to only watching those videos that come highly recommended by the members and especially those where they list a time slot to start watching at.

Thanks for voting in favour of fast forward. I'm trying.

 

[trevj]

This is exactly how I feel about MOST YouTube videos. I want my time back!

No, I didn't watch the video. I don't plan to either. I'm just making a general statement about about my feelings on YouTube.

You miss out on a lot of good information, if you totally skip YouTube.

When you find a content creator that is able to show, tell, and do, and the component parts all match up together, they don't babble and stammer, and they don't contradict themselves, like the video above, it is actually well worth the time, and with enough Ad Blocker software running, you don't have to endure adverts like television (one of the main reasons I don't watch TV at all).

 

[Susquatch]

You miss out on a lot of good information, if you totally skip YouTube.

You are right of course. I won't even quibble.

But it's a price I'll gladly pay. I'm too old to waste any time on my own trying to wade through the fluff to find the good stuff. Besides, the members of this forum are WAAAYYY better sources of info. Especially after their advice is vetted by the rest of the members.

FWIW, I don't watch TV either.

My favorite source of info is a good text book written by a globally acknowledged expert.

 

[Dabbler]

There are few utube 'content creators' that I blanket endorse. Of course even they can be hit and miss, but they have a very high percentage of hits; even they can be long-winded at times, but skip ahead and faster replay are the boss:

ROBRENZ
Adam the machinist
Stefan Gotteswinter

Oddly all of them have fairly low rate of posting - although Stefan is posting much more often lately, and his videos aren't up to his older work.

Solid Rock Machine Shop, Inc had a very strong start, and all of his older videos were fantastic, but now he posts seldom, and info is sparser.

 

[jcdammeyer]

I'm trying Tom. @Dabbler, @David_R8, and @jcdammeyer gave me the same advice. It isn't so easy to do on a phone. But I'm trying.

The approach also assumes there actually is some value in there somewhere. I don't often find that to be the case. For the most part, I've taken to only watching those videos that come highly recommended by the members and especially those where they list a time slot to start watching at.

Thanks for voting in favour of fast forward. I'm trying.

I don't watch YouTube on a phone. A Windows PC with Firefox with AdBlocker. Full screen. Usually Close Caption ON, Sound OFF unless what he's saying appears interesting. I'll drag the position bar across and back to catch the interesting stuff. Not interested in generating income for the clods that say nothing for as long as possible to earn money.

 

[trevj]

I don't watch YouTube on a phone. A Windows PC with Firefox with AdBlocker. Full screen. Usually Close Caption ON, Sound OFF unless what he's saying appears interesting. I'll drag the position bar across and back to catch the interesting stuff. Not interested in generating income for the clods that say nothing for as long as possible to earn money.

Given the actual earnings on a Million Views, as reported by several different sources at about a buck, maybe less, I have no real sympathy for the potential loss of the thousanth of a cent that my adblocker deprives the Content Creator of. I'd much rather that, than sit through banal ads from various Parties that think I should vote for them, and I figured out years ago, that no matter how much fun it looked like skydiving, offroading, and all that, my lifetime requirement for Tampons is still statistically ZERO!

Youtube has a lot of fun rabbit holes to dive down, on the odd times they push something just a little different your way, but it really is not a place to go without as much 'protection' as you can bear!
I run Firefox as a browser, and in addition to turning off a bunch of the settings there (and being well aware that the Google Mothership does not really care) I run AdBlocker Ultimate, Privacy Possum, and AdBlockPlus, as each seems to affect different things.

 

[trevj]

I can't resist commenting on the video. If you don't have time then watch only the last few minutes when the narrator admits that most of his criticisms are wrong!

Also note that he is discussing a ML7 rather than a S7; many of his comments are irrelevant for a S7. For examples, back gear is engaged with a lever on a S7 rather than requiring tools, S7 bearings are ball and conical bronze rather than white metal (Babbitt?), an S7 has no finicky oilers, an S7 cross slide has resettable dials. My lathe came with both a leadscrew handwheel and a threading dial but I've never found a need for either.

What he is really saying is the great advice of: "when purchasing a used lathe of any brand try to find a well outfitted one" rather than having to pay high prices in the future for individually purchased rare accessories.

Also note he was too lazy to even grab a tape measure, to see what fit between centers on supposedly, his own lathe... Dude needs fake eyebrows and a big cherry red nose appliance for his clown show.

The reality is, if all you can afford, or find, is an ML7, it's still a good machine. If you really need or want all the flash parts that come with the Super7 (other than the higher speed spindle), there is information out there that explains in gory detail, how you can make the stuff yourself, fulfilling one of the most basic needs of a machinist Hobbyist, by providing you with an excuse to own it in the first place! That being, to make tools and accessories for it!