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Tool 6” GS / Gerardi Modular Vise Clone
- Thread starter RobinHood
- Start date
Tool
Yes - keeping it clean is very important but not that difficult. Removing / cleaning / re-lube the floating jaws is less that 5 minutes.
Here’s another thing i like about this vise - tramming it with a square is surprisingly accurate
With my Kurt style vise i avoided moving it so as to avoid the re-tramming.
Now i move it without a second thought.
Mine is a 6”. I thought it might be toooo big but that’s what i found on Kijiji. Now I’m glad i got the 6”. It will go everything a 5” will do and also things a 5” can’t.
Here’s another thing i like about this vise - tramming it with a square is surprisingly accurate
With my Kurt style vise i avoided moving it so as to avoid the re-tramming.
Now i move it without a second thought.
Mine is a 6”. I thought it might be toooo big but that’s what i found on Kijiji. Now I’m glad i got the 6”. It will go everything a 5” will do and also things a 5” can’t.
I have T-slot indexers on my Bison which is very similar vise to Gerardi. The Bison is unfortunately no longer made. On my RF-45 mill I didn't trust the rougher surface of the slots so didn't use them with the alignment keys. On my 935 mill, the slots are very good. But after I spent some time mounting & remounting, ensuring cleanliness, kind of an honest personal repeatability test.. I could always see 0.001" on one end of the (5") jaw or another using the slot keys (which are precision ground). Since I'm always checking with a DTI anyways & often times I position the vise at a different position than where the T-slot increment dictates, I figure why bother with the keys any more. Now maybe they serve some other purpose I'm not aware of - stability under higher milling loads, or maybe this +/- variation is good enough for 'most' setups I cant say. I've noticed even with the keys in place that the tightening operation of my (6) hold-downs is enough to rotationally displace the vise on the table +/- 0.001" anyways. Its the torque of the SHCS acting on the hold down acting on the vise. I've wondered out loud if some kind of thrust bearing 'washer' integrated into the hold-downs (if something exists) might help. But I think its always going to be a reality check with DTI. If I snug my bolts 50% with my good machinist square along the table its always within a thou so the final bump & check is over with in a minute or so. DTI checking down the length of the vise is always the same runout as along the jaws for the same reference length, so I'm confident of jaw / body squareness.
I have to agree with that 100%.
My clone came with 16mm alignment feet which fit perfectly into the Deckel FP3Ls table T-Slots.
The last few projects were non-critical so I just went with that; did not even bother to indicate it in.
Excellent observation regarding hold downs torquing the base, @PeterT ; when I have some time, I will have to check on that and see if I can quantify it.
Most of the time i don’t need it trammed with DTI accuracy- like today’s pic above- i was just drilling a hole for a socket wrench access and +/- 1/32” was fine.
I don’t use the T-slot alignment keys either. @PeterT said he doesn’t bother with them anymore, well I don’t like them so I took them off my vises, RT and dividing head. They’re not very accurate so you still need to use the DTI if you want accuracy and they scratch up the surface of the mill or the bench when you are putting them on or off. I’ll change that - above I said “I don’t like using alignment keys” - well actually I hate alignment keys.
Back to the Gerardi:
Setting it up on an angle is super easy, pic here is with it at 30 degrees
Here’s another (set-up) reason to get the larger 6”. It’s certainly not tooooo big here:
I don’t use the T-slot alignment keys either. @PeterT said he doesn’t bother with them anymore, well I don’t like them so I took them off my vises, RT and dividing head. They’re not very accurate so you still need to use the DTI if you want accuracy and they scratch up the surface of the mill or the bench when you are putting them on or off. I’ll change that - above I said “I don’t like using alignment keys” - well actually I hate alignment keys.
Back to the Gerardi:
Setting it up on an angle is super easy, pic here is with it at 30 degrees
Here’s another (set-up) reason to get the larger 6”. It’s certainly not tooooo big here:
I just put my DTI on the corner of the jaw & did some random tightening, its easy to detect. The keys must have some clearance to get into the T-slot, so its never really 100% constrained rotationally. And of course potential debris is a big factor. Now I think you are supposed to push or pull the vise so the key is contacting one side of T-slot or the other, but its still the tightening operation that can displace it.
I kind of blindly followed the zig zag pattern thinking its helping to cancel any linear displacement, but now I'm not so sure. There could be a rotational displacement as well depending on how & where its presently semi-anchored at any one time. See sketch. Tighten right side, SHCS friction (green) acts on hold-down & can impart displacement + rotation about the vise center (yellow) Then go to left side, tightening acts in compensating linear direction, but aggravating rotational direction. Now I start in the middle hold-down (because across from vise center) & get those say 70% tight, then the outer ones have less influence? Who knows. More just spit balling here. A thou is easy, a tenth takes more work.
I kind of blindly followed the zig zag pattern thinking its helping to cancel any linear displacement, but now I'm not so sure. There could be a rotational displacement as well depending on how & where its presently semi-anchored at any one time. See sketch. Tighten right side, SHCS friction (green) acts on hold-down & can impart displacement + rotation about the vise center (yellow) Then go to left side, tightening acts in compensating linear direction, but aggravating rotational direction. Now I start in the middle hold-down (because across from vise center) & get those say 70% tight, then the outer ones have less influence? Who knows. More just spit balling here. A thou is easy, a tenth takes more work.
@CWret your pics show exactly why I like this style of vise. Much harder to do with the classic casting with 2 side bolt lugs. And these are significantly lower so more vertical space available under the quill. There is one more orientation, you can lay on its side (with blocks because vise extends a bit). I'm not sure this recommended because now less contact area to table & clamping across the vise vs down through each side groove.
Proxule
Ultra Member
Don't tempt me with the 6 inch. The price jumps into the stratosphere lol
Love the angle block idea. Thanks !!
Jswain
Joe
Easy peasy. You show her the brand new price/picture of a large Kurt vise, tell her that's what you've been thinking about buying.
Thennnn after she gets mad, you wait a day and show her this vise, and how much of a better deal it is. It's almost like she picked it out...
Mine didn't even come with alignment keys. Never used them so I don't miss them.
I don't think the clones jump that much. But I don't think you really need 6. 5 is plenty.