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You guys are a bad influence
- Thread starter Chicken lights
- Start date
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
Thanks everyone for your help!! I’m back on the road, this will have to wait until I’m home again
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
Nope. 
I’ve had other things to focus on, unfortunately
I’ve had other things to focus on, unfortunately
Brent H
Ultra Member
@YYCHobbyMachinist - Dave has to be the busiest trucker I have ever met - probably because he is dang good, He is home less than me! LOL (Although I guess that really funny (haha)) when we met up last time it was at the truck inspection station - crazy busy!
I have a few things for him so I hope to see him my next time off - and @Chicken lights : Bring the motor and we will get it going!!!
I have a few things for him so I hope to see him my next time off - and @Chicken lights : Bring the motor and we will get it going!!!
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
No, haven’t given up on it
It’s a sob story nobody wants to hear I’m just insanely busy. Even when I try to book time off something comes up. I have tomorrow off, I’m trying to see a couple friends and fix my junk then leaving Monday again
It’s a sob story nobody wants to hear I’m just insanely busy. Even when I try to book time off something comes up. I have tomorrow off, I’m trying to see a couple friends and fix my junk then leaving Monday again
trlvn
Ultra Member
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
Yeah, that’s pretty bad, even for meHmm...... Three years later and still not making chips..... Sad, Sad, Sad...
But at least you learned some special rigging techniques.....
Well...this makes sense now. When we met @Chicken lights I recall you saying you had an old lathe you were working on (as if I knew) but I had not seen this thread. Then when I found the thread in new posts, I thought, hey Dave got a lathe!....and now I see that they are one and the same.
Unfortunate that work gets in the way so much! Good luck Dave. Looks like a great lathe and fun to get so many members involved in it's resurrection!
Cheers,
Unfortunate that work gets in the way so much! Good luck Dave. Looks like a great lathe and fun to get so many members involved in it's resurrection!
Cheers,
Canadium
Ian
I wish there was more on this forum about rigging and moving techniques. There was a great thread about @Dabbler 's homemade crane but that covers just a fraction of whats needed in a heavy machine move. How do you get a full sized vertical mill or a one ton lathe home and into your shop without either killing yourself, someone else, or destroying the machine? I think I have most of the tools I would need; a 2 ton gantry, 2 and 3 ton chain hoists, several 2 inch tie down straps, a couple of transport chains, load binders etc. But I still feel like I wouldn't know what I was doing. No experience, no knowledge, no know how!
historicalarms
Ultra Member
Two rules that i adhere to when when lifting heavy stuff....remove every piece that comes off that doesn't require a laser level to get back in place...and lift on places that don't bend....cant go wrong.
The “problem” with rigging is that every move is different.
What works to move a lathe two feet from out of a corner into the middle of a shop/garage for better access during the move, may not work at all to further move the machine all the way out of the garage/shop and then onto the chosen mode of transport.
In an ideal world, everything would be accessible with a 50T crane and you grab the machine with 20T slings and be done with it. That is almost never the case.
Few things that I have learned over the years:
- only lift as much as needed - if you can move the item when it’s a 1/4” above a solid surface, do it; no need to lift it 2’ into the air.
- if at all possible, lift so that the c of g is below the lifting point; much more stable.
- remember: “steel on steel => no deal”; unless you want to slide the item along the solid surface - then it is a great way to move the machine without lifting it.
- it takes time to move stuff; estimate a reasonable amount of time, then double it.
- your rigging equipment is never “too strong”; however, the machine can easily be too heavy. In other words, there is nothing wrong with using a 6500lbs sling on a 100lb anvil, but there is everything wrong with trying to move the same 100lb anvil with a 75lb sling (ie, you are using the sling “in its safety zone” - assuming it uses a 150% safety factor - most are higher than that).
- rolling friction is less than static friction; if you can get rollers under the item, it might help.
- look for three points of contact; best way to move across uneven surfaces when you can’t lift the item clear off the floor with a crane.
- if the machine is going to fall, let it; better to have a bruised ego, than none at all (see next points).
- stay out of the danger zone; it may be larger and in a different spot than you think.
- have another set of eyes with you; they have the most important job of all the workers: they don’t necessarily actively help, but they observe and make sure that all the above steps/practices are followed.
- everybody has the right to call STOP. No harm no foul if you stop to re-evaluate one too many times.
- it’s usually never just a single item that causes a failure; it’s a series of problems - look up Swiss Cheese Model on how to break the error chain.
- etc, etc…
These are just some of be things that I can think of right now.
What works to move a lathe two feet from out of a corner into the middle of a shop/garage for better access during the move, may not work at all to further move the machine all the way out of the garage/shop and then onto the chosen mode of transport.
In an ideal world, everything would be accessible with a 50T crane and you grab the machine with 20T slings and be done with it. That is almost never the case.
Few things that I have learned over the years:
- only lift as much as needed - if you can move the item when it’s a 1/4” above a solid surface, do it; no need to lift it 2’ into the air.
- if at all possible, lift so that the c of g is below the lifting point; much more stable.
- remember: “steel on steel => no deal”; unless you want to slide the item along the solid surface - then it is a great way to move the machine without lifting it.
- it takes time to move stuff; estimate a reasonable amount of time, then double it.
- your rigging equipment is never “too strong”; however, the machine can easily be too heavy. In other words, there is nothing wrong with using a 6500lbs sling on a 100lb anvil, but there is everything wrong with trying to move the same 100lb anvil with a 75lb sling (ie, you are using the sling “in its safety zone” - assuming it uses a 150% safety factor - most are higher than that).
- rolling friction is less than static friction; if you can get rollers under the item, it might help.
- look for three points of contact; best way to move across uneven surfaces when you can’t lift the item clear off the floor with a crane.
- if the machine is going to fall, let it; better to have a bruised ego, than none at all (see next points).
- stay out of the danger zone; it may be larger and in a different spot than you think.
- have another set of eyes with you; they have the most important job of all the workers: they don’t necessarily actively help, but they observe and make sure that all the above steps/practices are followed.
- everybody has the right to call STOP. No harm no foul if you stop to re-evaluate one too many times.
- it’s usually never just a single item that causes a failure; it’s a series of problems - look up Swiss Cheese Model on how to break the error chain.
- etc, etc…
These are just some of be things that I can think of right now.
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
@RobinHood hit most of the important things
As he mentioned it’s tricky because it’s always dependant on so many factors. The Switzerland surface grinder I moved recently had its own dedicated 3 chain lifting basket for that machine only. But the trailer was 6” too high so we switched to a 4 chain basket that had the extra grab hooks to be able to adjust chain length
Couple years ago had a 2000 pound piece of glass shatter because they had the wrong slings and couldn’t get the safety latch to close on the crane hook
I agree with Robin on the letting it fall if it’s gonna go, however I’ll point out that you need to leave an exit. If you are in a pinch point stop everything and move. General rule of thumb is have something solid between you and what’s being moved
Also on that line is if you’re working with machinery setup basic hand signals with who you’re working with. There’s no right or wrong as long as everyone knows what they are. I’d say tilt back/forward, up/down, stop, kill the machine, turn the machine and back/forward are the most important ones
Stop was always the hardest one to teach, for some reason.
I guess eye contact too. Even if I’ve given the stop hand signal I don’t move from the safe spot until the operator acknowledges with a head nod or something, stop means machine in neutral hands off gear shifts and steering wheels feet off pedals
Last, don’t be afraid to move. Couple weeks ago delivering job boxes to a worksite, trailer facing downhill, forklift operator bumped the trailer. One job box that was pinned to the wall bumped loose and headed towards another one held in place by a strap we had anchored it with. I saw the forklift bump the wall, turned and saw the box start moving and I was gone. No idea if that strap was gonna hold two plus the speed of the crash. Forklift operator got a chuckle out of it and I don’t care.
I guess the other thing about working with guys is reading them. Are they morons or are they competent. Are they day drinkers or sober. Are they used to the machine they’re running.
I moved an oversize combine head couple years ago, used to backhoes to load it, then used a crappy forklift/tractor conversion and a 35 ton worn out hoe to unload it. The new owners asked me if they were paying me to haul it or to coordinate the unloading
As he mentioned it’s tricky because it’s always dependant on so many factors. The Switzerland surface grinder I moved recently had its own dedicated 3 chain lifting basket for that machine only. But the trailer was 6” too high so we switched to a 4 chain basket that had the extra grab hooks to be able to adjust chain length
Couple years ago had a 2000 pound piece of glass shatter because they had the wrong slings and couldn’t get the safety latch to close on the crane hook
I agree with Robin on the letting it fall if it’s gonna go, however I’ll point out that you need to leave an exit. If you are in a pinch point stop everything and move. General rule of thumb is have something solid between you and what’s being moved
Also on that line is if you’re working with machinery setup basic hand signals with who you’re working with. There’s no right or wrong as long as everyone knows what they are. I’d say tilt back/forward, up/down, stop, kill the machine, turn the machine and back/forward are the most important ones
Stop was always the hardest one to teach, for some reason.
I guess eye contact too. Even if I’ve given the stop hand signal I don’t move from the safe spot until the operator acknowledges with a head nod or something, stop means machine in neutral hands off gear shifts and steering wheels feet off pedals
Last, don’t be afraid to move. Couple weeks ago delivering job boxes to a worksite, trailer facing downhill, forklift operator bumped the trailer. One job box that was pinned to the wall bumped loose and headed towards another one held in place by a strap we had anchored it with. I saw the forklift bump the wall, turned and saw the box start moving and I was gone. No idea if that strap was gonna hold two plus the speed of the crash. Forklift operator got a chuckle out of it and I don’t care.
I guess the other thing about working with guys is reading them. Are they morons or are they competent. Are they day drinkers or sober. Are they used to the machine they’re running.
I moved an oversize combine head couple years ago, used to backhoes to load it, then used a crappy forklift/tractor conversion and a 35 ton worn out hoe to unload it. The new owners asked me if they were paying me to haul it or to coordinate the unloading
Canadium
Ian
I've often wondered about this very point. My go to rental place is U-Haul. Their best trailer is all galvanized steel construction. Putting a heavy machine directly on such a deck never seemed like a good idea to me. Would simply putting a rubber mat in between the machine and the deck be a sufficient solution? Anyone know of a better trailer rental in the Hamilton area. I've looked around and never found anything conveniently close.
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
Depending on who is loading/unloading, a couple 4x4’s would work better. Allows the forks to slide in and out. Unless it’s on a skid then the wood would be redundant. But to answer the question rubber mats (highway truck mud flaps, free in most truck stop parking lots) or even cardboard is good for friction
Some machines you can’t throw straps over the top and you have to strap the skid down instead of the machine. Other machines you can run chains through the base to secure them.
Brent H
Ultra Member
Here are a few more tid bits:
If you are going for the big distance move:
-Ensure the machine is fully disconnected from all power.
-Lock or seal shut any doors that can fly open
-be sure all loose items are removed from the machine and put into manageable containers
-Drain all fluids and wipe off grease and oils that can cause grip issues or get you and your lifting arrangements all slippy
-Make sure the exit path is clear and measure the route to make sure you can fit the machine out the doors
-If you have the machine on a cart or other rolling carrier - secure the machine to the carrier, make sure the carrier cannot free roll away or towards you - into a wall, down the stairs etc
-be sure to balance the load for a lift - pick it up so it stays level - use a spreader if required
-don't over sling the lifting hook - use rated shackles, cables, slings chain falls etc
-protect the stairs, exit pathway, floors etc from damage
-properly secure top heavy equipment - always best to take it apart if possible . - like take the base off the lathe or fold a mill into the proper head position for moving.
-if possible take the machine apart into manageable sizes
-watch sharp edges and protect the lifting straps - watch chains on equipment - things like cast iron can shatter if reefed down to secure them
- remember that if the lift is on an angle your arrangement may be de-rated given the severity of the angle - like a chain fall that lifts 1 ton does it straight up and down - not hauling a lathe up the stairs where the connection point is at an angle
- lathes roll really well on cement floors with a couple steel pipes - as do mills
-Try and look up the weight of your machine - heavy stuff is typically listed in the manual - make sure your gear is good to go for that.
-avoid using pulleys or ropes that you are just physically holding and pulling on to lift the machine - best to have something that locks the position with each advancement of motion.
-if you are craning things - use a tag line to help control the load
-DO NOT WALK OR GO UNDER THE LOAD
-discuss signals and hand gestures or have a line of communication if you do not have direct site of the person operating the winch or chain falls
- try and establish rest areas in the move where you can get the object to and then take a safe break if required.
-Beer etc best served AFTER the move
-make sure your trailer can take the load - secure the trailer from tipping if it is off the truck ball - never hurts to throw a couple jack stands under the back end for support.
There is lots more but I gotta go see some contractors...
But the biggest one of all - if you need a heavy lathe moved out of a basement- don't call me
(just kidding @Canadium - we rocked that move!)
If you are going for the big distance move:
-Ensure the machine is fully disconnected from all power.
-Lock or seal shut any doors that can fly open
-be sure all loose items are removed from the machine and put into manageable containers
-Drain all fluids and wipe off grease and oils that can cause grip issues or get you and your lifting arrangements all slippy
-Make sure the exit path is clear and measure the route to make sure you can fit the machine out the doors
-If you have the machine on a cart or other rolling carrier - secure the machine to the carrier, make sure the carrier cannot free roll away or towards you - into a wall, down the stairs etc
-be sure to balance the load for a lift - pick it up so it stays level - use a spreader if required
-don't over sling the lifting hook - use rated shackles, cables, slings chain falls etc
-protect the stairs, exit pathway, floors etc from damage
-properly secure top heavy equipment - always best to take it apart if possible . - like take the base off the lathe or fold a mill into the proper head position for moving.
-if possible take the machine apart into manageable sizes
-watch sharp edges and protect the lifting straps - watch chains on equipment - things like cast iron can shatter if reefed down to secure them
- remember that if the lift is on an angle your arrangement may be de-rated given the severity of the angle - like a chain fall that lifts 1 ton does it straight up and down - not hauling a lathe up the stairs where the connection point is at an angle
- lathes roll really well on cement floors with a couple steel pipes - as do mills
-Try and look up the weight of your machine - heavy stuff is typically listed in the manual - make sure your gear is good to go for that.
-avoid using pulleys or ropes that you are just physically holding and pulling on to lift the machine - best to have something that locks the position with each advancement of motion.
-if you are craning things - use a tag line to help control the load
-DO NOT WALK OR GO UNDER THE LOAD
-discuss signals and hand gestures or have a line of communication if you do not have direct site of the person operating the winch or chain falls
- try and establish rest areas in the move where you can get the object to and then take a safe break if required.
-Beer etc best served AFTER the move
-make sure your trailer can take the load - secure the trailer from tipping if it is off the truck ball - never hurts to throw a couple jack stands under the back end for support.
There is lots more but I gotta go see some contractors...
But the biggest one of all - if you need a heavy lathe moved out of a basement- don't call me
(just kidding @Canadium - we rocked that move!)