WOW, Speed of Machining

[Susquatch]

Guys guys guys......

It's a competition at the meet N greets if the organizers want.

But it's also an entry qualification for "Walks on Water" machinist status on the forum. We have brand new members, members, active members, super members, ultra members etc. Those who can complete the assignment within the time allocation will earn top tier "Walks on Water" Member Status. Assuming of course that the rest of the admins agree (which is far from a fait a compli). Right now it's just an idea.

@Darren - for the meet and greets, nuts or no nuts is an organizer decision. But for "Walks on Water" membership status, a full blown Class 2B test is required to be completed within the allocated time. However, an entrant need not do the test during the time allocation if they are confident in their skills. Instead it can be done afterward. But..... If done afterward, a failure disqualifies them from recognition in the top 10 no matter what their time is.

 

[Darren]

I just thought a smaller thread than the 1.968 specified might be more inclusive for the less well endowed members....the guys with smaller machines might be better with smaller nuts.

I guess me n @ShawnR are going to have to setup our own meet n greet. But he was just here the other day.....

 

[Dan Dubeau]

I'm guessing most of us hobbiests aren't going to have a 22x2.75"od chunk of steel kicking around we want to carve up for some internet bragging rights. As fun as it sounds, and I'd participate too, if you kept it in the 4"x1" od range I'm sure it would fit within the available stock, and home shop lathes available to most of us.

It's a fun idea though, and the original part and #'s is impressive. I'm sure given enough blanks a pro could hit those times regularly, but with some of those tolerances, and the 1 pass requirement, you'd have to have a dialed in tool and process, and be hustling to make those times. An impressive machinist to hit those #'s consistently, one much better than I.

 

[Susquatch]

I just thought a smaller thread than the 1.968 specified might be more inclusive for the less well endowed members....the guys with smaller machines might be better with smaller nuts.

OK, I agree with you on that. Besides, the time is dependent on the thread pitch and rpm not the diameter. So I agree, let's make it a dimension that folks might actually have laying around. How about 1 inch or even 3/4 inch? Neither one normally has an 18 tpi thread, so the oddball nature of the original brag is still intact.

I'm guessing most of us hobbiests aren't going to have a 22x2.75"od chunk of steel kicking around we want to carve up for some internet bragging rights. As fun as it sounds, and I'd participate too, if you kept it in the 4"x1" od range I'm sure it would fit within the available stock, and home shop lathes available to most of us.

See my reply to Darren above. But even without that change, we were never going to make the entire part in our little game. Just the threaded part of it. So it always was doable on any home shop lathe.

and the original part and #'s is impressive. I'm sure given enough blanks a pro could hit those times regularly, but with some of those tolerances, and the 1 pass requirement, you'd have to have a dialed in tool and process, and be hustling to make those times. An impressive machinist to hit those #'s consistently, one much better than I.

Agreed. That's what started the whole idea of trying to do it. It's also why I've stepped back myself. There is no way in hell I could hit those numbers!

I'm betting @thestelster could get close though..... There might be a few others on here who would stand a decent chance too. It would be nice to recognize their skills in some way. And we could all have a hell of a great time in the process.

For me, it all started with a few rough calcs and then the BS flag popped up.

I'm no skilled machinist, but I MIGHT try it just for poops N giggles even though I'm clearly disqualified from participating. Most of the poops of course would be on my end and the giggles on your end!

 

[Darren]

7/8 18tpi is common in auto tie rod apps. I'd love to join in if we can do that. I think we should do it via Youtube, create a hashtag, and upload away. Stopwatch in focus. Till nut spins on.

 

[Susquatch]

7/8 18tpi is common in auto tie rod apps. I'd love to join in if we can do that. I think we should do it via Youtube, create a hashtag, and upload away. Stopwatch in focus. Till nut spins on.

OK, sounds like 7/8 is a winner.

But no nuts spinning on stuff. That makes it too easy. The claim is that the operator can do this commercially. So it has to fit ANY nut. And it can't be too loose. So it has to be measured to meet a class 2B thread specification. Spinning on a nut is not sufficient for that.

Now that all said, if all we want to do is have some fun and forget all about a "Walks on Water" membership status, then we don't need to check for the quality of the thread fit, or the number of passes, etc etc. If so, then I wanna play too! I can probably hog off the majority of the thread in one pass and then clean to fit. 4 minutes should be doable - even for me.

I'd prolly also cut at 200 rpm. Lots of ways to cheat.

 

[RobinHood]

Threading challenge in meet-ups is probably not as good an idea as I originally thought…

Probably best if folks use their own, familiar lathes for a timed challenge like that.

 

[Darren]

I'm just thinking that a nut might be easier to acquire than a set of thread wires and a mic for some folks. So we can get more challengers.

My lathe manual says I can thread at 800rpm up to a shoulder with the trip dogs. So if i keep it in high gear, with the vfd, I should be able to hit 3000 in forward, slowing to 800 at the end, 5000 in reverse back to the start, and within a few passes I'll either be the winner or more probably, crash the lathe. Should be a good time!

 

[Susquatch]

Threading challenge in meet-ups is probably not as good an idea as I originally thought…

Probably best if folks use their own, familiar lathes for a timed challenge like that.

Betting you are having second thoughts about someone using your lathe with a time crunch....

It would not happen with my lathe!

I'd happily let another member use my lathe with me standing there. But with the pressure of a clock ticking, it's an invitation to do some damage. Then there would be hard feelings. Best not to go there.

A special membership status makes sense though....

 

[Susquatch]

I'm just thinking that a nut might be easier to acquire than a set of thread wires and a mic for some folks. So we can get more challengers.

My lathe manual says I can thread at 800rpm up to a shoulder with the trip dogs. So if i keep it in high gear, with the vfd, I should be able to hit 3000 in forward, slowing to 800 at the end, 5000 in reverse back to the start, and within a few passes I'll either be the winner or more probably, crash the lathe. Should be a good time!

You are worse than me. Hence the arbitrary rules.

 

[RobinHood]

Betting you are having second thoughts about someone using your lathe with a time crunch....

It would not happen with my lathe!

I'd happily let another member use my lathe with me standing there. But with the pressure of a clock ticking, it's an invitation to do some damage. Then there would be hard feelings. Best not to go there.

A special membership status makes sense though....

Well, more of a liability thing if someone were to get hurt during the operation in the rush of time.

Agreed, I’d let folks run the machine under close supervision and no time crunch.

Might just do some demonstration or some non-powered, manual challenge instead. I have some ideas that could be fun.

 

[Mcgyver]

I just thought a smaller thread than the 1.968 specified might be more inclusive for the less well endowed members....the guys with smaller machines might be better with smaller nuts.

You must have an entirely different approach to threading than I! Sounds far to harzardous, and I don't want details.....but I'm leaving my endowment and nuts outa this!

I agree the thread tolerance QC needs thought. If you have wires or a mic cutting a thread to tolerance is easy, but is a challenging without. otoh, any sized wires can be used, so long as they are close in diameter so maybe its not a barrier. If you do the math, the need for precision isn't the millionth of an inch the thread wire makers might have you believe,

If you don't have to turn the OD first, and its just threading, I'd do some practice threads so I could hit the right pitch diameter with the dials without any measuring during.

If we do come up with a competition that has a test all can do, I'll donate a set of thread wires as a prize to the winner, provided they don't already have a set.

 

[thestelster]

You must have an entirely different approach to threading than I! Sounds far to harzardous, and I don't want details.....I'm leaving my endowment and nuts outa this!

I agree the thread tolerance QC needs thought. If you have wires or a mic cutting a thread to tolerance is easy, but is a challenging without. otoh, any sized wires can be used, so long as they are close in diameter so maybe its not a barrier. If you do the math, the need for precision isn't the millionth of an inch the thread wire makers might have you believe,

If you don't have to turn the OD first, and its just threading, I'd do some practice threads so I could hit the right pitch diameter with the dials without any measuring during.

If we do come up with a competition that has a test all do, I'll donate a set of thread wires as a prize to the winner, provided they don't already have a set.

Hey @Mcgyver that's a great offer, much appreciated.

Also, I think we should measure the threads as part of our self-evaluation test. It's something that needs to be learned too. But the measuring is done after the clock stops ticking.

7/8"-14tpi is a reasonable thread. And maybe we have to hit pitch diameter within a 2a tolerance. If your thread is over or under tolerance, you get a time penalty added on.

Though videos would be amazing, some of us aren't set up for that. But I'd love to see some in action.

The final exam at the years end should be to do the whole part. But, after checking the price of a 24" of 2.75" thick 1045 steel, @$250.00!! maybe we'll scale down the project!

 

[Mcgyver]

On the thread dimension, you and Sasquatch are right. Pick a tolerance, any tolerance.

Thinking about it more, everyone can hit that....all that is needed is finding a length of or three wire/pins/needles/whatever around the right size. So long as they are with .001" it'll work in that there is no magic to what diameter is used, its all formula based. It's a good bit of learning for any who haven't done so and makes it more like what a commercial guy would have to achieve. Even if their variance is more than a thou, who cares....the part isn't mating with anything, its more about the process.

 

[Bandit]

Them Pace maker lathes are much more then what most of us are used to. Very heavy duty, power threading in either direction, 2 sets of half nuts, possibly don't stop lathe, but have powerful brake on them any way. Hardened ways that can be replaced.
On the shaft drawing for times and cuts, 6 stop dogs for diameter cuts, and 6 length cut stop dogs. Only a single pass for for each cut. 10 passes for threading cuts. Cut and thread 1 end of shaft, turn end for end and cut and thread other end. Appears longest times allowed are for setting stop dogs and for threading. So, looks like precut shaft length, not centre drilled either end. Maybe a stop in spindle bore so shaft only goes into chuck set amount.
Perhaps, I will continue looking for more information on these lathes and there turning set ups. Stop dogs maybe on some type of turning magazine setup.
The challenge could be very interesting.

 

[Susquatch]

7/8"-14tpi is a reasonable thread

I already changed it to 7/8 but 18 not 14. My reasoning is that it shouldn't be something everyone has a nut for, and 14 can be cut about 30% faster than 18.

You guys all need to quit trying to make this easier. At this rate everyone is gunna get walks on water status. What the heck is the point in that?

And maybe we have to hit pitch diameter within a 2a tolerance

I think you meant 2B. And yes, that needs to be a requirement.

 

[thestelster]

I already changed it to 7/8 but 18 not 14. My reasoning is that it shouldn't be something everyone has a nut for, and 14 can be cut about 30% faster than 18.

You guys all need to quit trying to make this easier. At this rate everyone is gunna get walks on water status. What the heck is the point in that?



I think you meant 2B. And yes, that needs to be a requirement.

Yes, sorry, 18tpi, 2B tolerance.

But "Walking on Water" status, has to include multi-start metric threads (on an Imperial Leadscrew)!!

 

[thestelster]

Them Pace maker lathes are much more then what most of us are used to. Very heavy duty, power threading in either direction, 2 sets of half nuts, possibly don't stop lathe, but have powerful brake on them any way. Hardened ways that can be replaced.
On the shaft drawing for times and cuts, 6 stop dogs for diameter cuts, and 6 length cut stop dogs. Only a single pass for for each cut. 10 passes for threading cuts. Cut and thread 1 end of shaft, turn end for end and cut and thread other end. Appears longest times allowed are for setting stop dogs and for threading. So, looks like precut shaft length, not centre drilled either end. Maybe a stop in spindle bore so shaft only goes into chuck set amount.
Perhaps, I will continue looking for more information on these lathes and there turning set ups. Stop dogs maybe on some type of turning magazine setup.
The challenge could be very interesting.

Actually, it does state, place between centers.

In one of the first posts on this thread. I linked to the owners manual. You'll see the system for hard stops.

 

[Susquatch]

But "Walking on Water" status, has to include multi-start metric threads (on an Imperial Leadscrew)!!

I agree with THAT! But some members don't have that kind of equipment so they would not be able to even enter. We are probably over that edge already though.....

 

[Mcgyver]

shucks...the DSG has an imperial LS but lets you cut metric without change gears....and has a spindle device letting you do up to 8 starts threads.

I love my lathe <throbbing heart smilie>