I would have but unless I maybe want to make a still for alcohol... I can't see needing it after this project is done.
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Tool Tubing Bender
- Thread starter jcdammeyer
- Start date
Tool
Lot's of failures tonight. A bit of rushing. Lots of inexperience. And I thought the fitting between tank and compressor was different. So now I have to either trash the original to salvage the two brass pieces or just go buy two so I can keep the original just in case I want to restore it back to normal.
Meanwhile my first attempt at routing the top tube was a dismal failure. Misjudged the R and L values on the tube bender. Made a measurement mistake. And my flaring with the 3T press doesn't work as well as the tool that you turn to squish into the flare. I think because the tube wasn't square to the flaring die. So I shortened it and drilled a pilot hole and now I can use the correct tool. But this is pretty ugly.
The exit tube into the filter/water separator went well until I forgot to debur the cut end and then the flange folded over. I cut that off and then reamed it badly and it still didn't turn out super nice. One more try. At least now I can make the bracket the right size to hold the water separator.
But to do this I had to turn a second die with the 90 degree bevel.
Maybe tomorrow I'll get it all put together and working. (without any leaks too).
Meanwhile my first attempt at routing the top tube was a dismal failure. Misjudged the R and L values on the tube bender. Made a measurement mistake. And my flaring with the 3T press doesn't work as well as the tool that you turn to squish into the flare. I think because the tube wasn't square to the flaring die. So I shortened it and drilled a pilot hole and now I can use the correct tool. But this is pretty ugly.
The exit tube into the filter/water separator went well until I forgot to debur the cut end and then the flange folded over. I cut that off and then reamed it badly and it still didn't turn out super nice. One more try. At least now I can make the bracket the right size to hold the water separator.
But to do this I had to turn a second die with the 90 degree bevel.
Maybe tomorrow I'll get it all put together and working. (without any leaks too).
The fitting on the tank and the compressor looks like it is folded over. More like steel brake lines. This type of fitting isn’t at Home Depot. I don’t even know how to make that sort of folded over compression fitting and haven’t seen any youtube videos on that.
However I have an idea. If I cut the original tube at the top after the bend and at the bottom before the bend and then just add a standard compression to compression fitting Then it will be easy to get at for wrenches and running the new tubing. And if I did want to go the old way just create a small connector tube. Best of both worlds.
edit: Like cut original tubing here:
John
However I have an idea. If I cut the original tube at the top after the bend and at the bottom before the bend and then just add a standard compression to compression fitting Then it will be easy to get at for wrenches and running the new tubing. And if I did want to go the old way just create a small connector tube. Best of both worlds.
edit: Like cut original tubing here:
John
That’s a good plan.
I think it's glued in. I had to use a 4' pipe on the wrench that compressed the tube fitting. The fitting into the head didn't even move.
The claim for the double compression fittings is they hold higher pressure. And coming out of the compressor I can envision pulses way above the tank pressure. Maybe that's why they used that. The user manual for the compressor (came on CD with paper quick install) just lists the part as one tube with fittings.
So theoretically Ingersoll Rand could supply a replacement part.
Amazon has the double flaring setup but for 45 degrees.
So is this a 45 degree fitting or a 37 degree fitting?
Jswain
Joe
When I made mine(also for an Ingersol 3hp compressor) I just used a regular brake flaring tool.
I also found with those cheap tools it helps to 1) anneal the copper prior to flaring. 2) after clamping the tool on the tube making sure the height is perfect & square, also clamp the tool in a vise before you start flaring.
And of course 3) practise on some scrap ends before you go to make the final flare. But annealing helps a lot.
I also found with those cheap tools it helps to 1) anneal the copper prior to flaring. 2) after clamping the tool on the tube making sure the height is perfect & square, also clamp the tool in a vise before you start flaring.
And of course 3) practise on some scrap ends before you go to make the final flare. But annealing helps a lot.
Pictures?
So if I want to connect direct to the multi-way tank connector with a double flare fitting and not destroy the original pipe I can go this route.
Alternatively knowing I could make a new pipe above parts I could also buy these and cut the original into pieces and connect to those. A lot of extra fitting to leak though.
Decisions decisions decisions.
Alternatively knowing I could make a new pipe above parts I could also buy these and cut the original into pieces and connect to those. A lot of extra fitting to leak though.
Decisions decisions decisions.
Jswain
Joe
I don't unfortunately, here is a link with some good tips though
Double flaring help needed
Is there some trick to double flaring if you have the tools. I am not haveing much luck.
I would just cut the OG tube and steal the fittings. Once you have it rigged in you'll never want to go back. If something fails and you need compressed air right away soft copper tubing is easy to find.
You can probably find the fittings locally for a couple bucks a piece too, sometimes Amazon is ridiculously expensive for weird things like that versus buying 2 for 3$ each at a hardware store
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The double flare kit arrived today. The other side of the anvil has the countersunk relief for the flare.
As per @Jswain's suggestion I've been practising with it. The instructions are a bit vague with respect to making the double flares. If I use the side of the anvil that has the countersunk surface the forming tool that makes the first inward curl doesn't work and the metal just gets squished outward and even pushes down.
If I use the flat side of the anvil then the forming tool makes a curved inward flange but it's not symmetrical.
However then flipping it over so I'm now compressing against the countersink I get a reasonable looking double flare. But the non-symmetry shows up in the folded over lip size.
Going to try again after first annealing the copper.
Also the anvil is marked with metric tube sizes with only 1/4" and 1/2" but that appears to be the ID dimension. Also I thought the registration pins were designed to keep the forming tool centred. That's not happening as the second photo shows.
Now my Cdo (as it should be) is kicking in, the 3 small metric sizes on the anvil are marked very incorrectly, can't see anything else in the picture, get the grinder
The one marked 10mm when measured with a caliper is actually about 12.15mm while my original one, shown in posting #22 in this thread, marked as 1/2", measures 11.7mm so will grip the tube more tightly. I've found this new one allows the tube to be pushed down. The tubing measures 12.7mm OD.
Looking at a few more videos the die used to form the first part of the double flare looks like it's supposed to have a larger pin. The one on mine us 6.5mm. The next size up is 9.5mm which doesn't leave much room for the metal to bend inwards and so the tube is pushed down and not formed at all.
On smaller tubes the registration pin is closer in size to the ID of the tube.
Looking at a few more videos the die used to form the first part of the double flare looks like it's supposed to have a larger pin. The one on mine us 6.5mm. The next size up is 9.5mm which doesn't leave much room for the metal to bend inwards and so the tube is pushed down and not formed at all.
On smaller tubes the registration pin is closer in size to the ID of the tube.
Jswain
Joe
They are very finicky for tubing prep & how much stickout you leave but once you figure it out they get pretty repeatable.
I think too much stickout(even by a small amount) or not keeping the tool square when you're tightening it down makes the biggest difference. Annealing will help, plus of you hold it in a vise it will grip the tool better plus allow you to focus on the tool/tightening to the same amount of pressure.
I think too much stickout(even by a small amount) or not keeping the tool square when you're tightening it down makes the biggest difference. Annealing will help, plus of you hold it in a vise it will grip the tool better plus allow you to focus on the tool/tightening to the same amount of pressure.
A bit more research on Amazon and I found this:
But their 1/2" is way too big for half inch tubing. More like 1/2" ID.
But their 1/2" is way too big for half inch tubing. More like 1/2" ID.
I was going to try an anneal a piece tonight but forgot we were going out. Too late now for that.
I've told Amazon I'm not happy. I've sent an email to customer service. I bought it even though it had metric measurements for tubing because it also had 1/2". But it seems their measurements are all for tubing ID where as I understand tubing is measured by OD and pipe is ID. Plus I think the undersize centering pin makes it a bit hit and miss.
I've told Amazon I'm not happy. I've sent an email to customer service. I bought it even though it had metric measurements for tubing because it also had 1/2". But it seems their measurements are all for tubing ID where as I understand tubing is measured by OD and pipe is ID. Plus I think the undersize centering pin makes it a bit hit and miss.
Jswain
Joe
Canadian Tire will rent you one for free usually, pay a deposit and get it back when you return it... But they are all about the same until you spend some $$.
Chris M has offered to loan me his $200 hydraulic version. I'm in Vancouver tomorrow so I won't be able to get it from him for a few days. Waiting for the brake line type nuts anyway and they won't be here until next week. Meanwhile I'll keep practicing.