Show us your Tool Height Standard

[Susquatch]

@Gearhead88, @Tecnico , @jcdammeyer, @Tom O ,@DPittman

Whatever works, works.

But surely it can't get easier than this. I made it out of a big rusty old bolt.

Here it is sitting on my flat way.

And here is a closeup of how you use it. Just rub your finger across where they touch. You can easily feel a thou and some of the characters on here can feel a half thou.

In use, nothing is faster or more accurate.

And just for the record, that's the high-speed tool I ground to make 12 thou needles for @DPittman. Needless to say, that job required very very very precise setting on center! I never did get to 10, but the opera lady didn't sing yet!

 

[jcdammeyer]

@Gearhead88, @Tecnico , @jcdammeyer, @Tom O ,@DPittman

Whatever works, works.

But surely it can't get easier than this. I made it out of a big rusty old bolt.

View attachment 28566

Here it is sitting on my flat way.

View attachment 28567

And here is a closeup of how you use it. Just rub your finger across where they touch. You can easily feel a thou and some of the characters on here can feel a half thou.


View attachment 28568

In use, nothing is faster or more accurate.

And just for the record, that's the high-speed tool I ground to make 12 thou needles for @DPittman. Needless to say, that job required very very very precise setting on center! I never got to 10, but the opera lady didn't sing yet!

Perhaps I've missed it in this thread or elsewhere but once the tool has been made it's true that setting the tool height is a no-brainer. Where my brain hurts is determining the correct height in the first place.

The only approach I can think of is:
1. Turn something to an evenly divisible diameter. So 1.000" for example (precisely.
2. Now use a height gauge like the Busy Bee one's we've been referencing (or something higher quality from the base measuring point to the top of what's been turned.
3. Subtract the radius of the turned item and move the height gauge arm down to that position.
4. Create an adjustable height post and adjust until it measures to the height gauge arm on the surface plate (or tablesaw/bandsaw table).
5. Lock the jamb nut at this point or dribble in thread locker.

That's the best step by step I can come up with.

 

[VicHobbyGuy]

Where my brain hurts is determining the correct height in the first place.

I'm sure my method was much less accurate than yours, but it worked for me.
Put a piece of scrap in the chuck and face it with a sharp tool in the QCTP.
Adjust the tool height to exactly remove the 'pip' in the center of the work.
Lock the tool height in the QCTP holder. Remove that tool in its holder and put it aside. That will be the 'fine tuning' device.
Measure up to the center from the ways- that will be the rough height.
Make the height gauge in the lathe, face ends to length, or use a gauge with adjustments (threaded big bolt with locking setscrew, for example).
Test the gauge with the fine tuning tool set aside previously. Repeat till satisfied.
I use a single edge razor blade to compare tool height with the gauge.

 

[StevSmar]

I really like this, though I suspect it’s because of the nice colour:
Edge Technologies Lathe tool height setter

 

[jcdammeyer]

I really like this, though I suspect it’s because of the nice colour:
Edge Technologies Lathe tool height setter
View attachment 28574

It's cheap enough but the adjustment for non-level lathes ultimately introduces the same issue. First the tool must be exactly on center. Then you can tweak the level so it shows the tool is exactly on center. But to get the tool exactly on center you need to have the level tweaked.........

I like the colour too.

 

[StevSmar]

But to get the tool exactly on center you need to have the level tweaked.........

The level can be adjusted, to accommodate a lathe that’s not level.

The colour is looking even nicer the more I look at it…LOL

 

[Susquatch]

To be brutally honest, I hate the colour......

OK, your head should hurt for this business of getting the right height on the tool. It isn't that simple, but it is fairly easy.

This is prolly the one and only time I'll ever post a YouTube link. But it's a lot easier for me to post one than it would be for anybody to follow my instructions for doing this. I hate YouTube.

For the record, you do not need gauge pins. Some math works too.

Joe Pie can be a rough watch. A little too pedantic for me. But.... He knows his stuff.

 

[Susquatch]

Apparently Joe Pie cut his standard with a mill. Facing in a lathe works just fine too. That's how I made mine.

Watching his video again made me realize that the math I mentioned above isn't obvious either.

You can make your own gauge pins on the lathe. Measure their OD very carefully. If they are out a few thou, just take that into account when you compare the two heights with your dial test indicator.

 

[jcdammeyer]

To be brutally honest, I hate the colour......

OK, your head should hurt for this business of getting the right height on the tool. It isn't that simple, but it is fairly easy.

This is prolly the one and only time I'll ever post a YouTube link. But it's a lot easier for me to post one than it would be for anybody to follow my instructions for doing this. I hate YouTube.

For the record, you do not need gauge pins. Some math works too.

Joe Pie can be a rough watch. A little too pedantic for me. But.... He knows his stuff.

Just love his demonstration of cutting his tool gauge to the exact length with the perfectly smooth almost mirror like finish.
Magic that it was then the perfect height.
And yes... that was sarcasm.

I think his approach would work better if the tool gauge was itself adjustable. Then you can set the 1/2" and 1/4" pins up with the dial indicator and finely adjust the tool gauge height until the dial reads zero.

I'm pretty sure I'd never be able to make a round piece of aluminium accurate to some unknown length on my mill due to backlash in the ACME screws.

 

[jcdammeyer]

The level can be adjusted, to accommodate a lathe that’s not level.

The colour is looking even nicer the more I look at it…LOL

Yes but it's a catch-22 scenario. Once you have a properly adjusted cutting tool then you can use it to put the pink gauge up against something in the chuck. Then tweak the level to match what you know is a properly adjusted tool. But first you have to properly adjust the tool.
Like photographing yourself in a mirror which is a image of you photographing yourself in a mirror which is ...

 

[Proxule]

I just guess and SEND IT, .200 DOC and see how it feels

 

[Susquatch]

Just love his demonstration of cutting his tool gauge to the exact length with the perfectly smooth almost mirror like finish.
Magic that it was then the perfect height.
And yes... that was sarcasm.

I think his approach would work better if the tool gauge was itself adjustable. Then you can set the 1/2" and 1/4" pins up with the dial indicator and finely adjust the tool gauge height until the dial reads zero.

I'm pretty sure I'd never be able to make a round piece of aluminium accurate to some unknown length on my mill due to backlash in the ACME screws.

Yes, too funny. But he did admit he'd already had it for decades.

Creeping up on the dimension was the hard part for me. I didn't have a mill. So I just faced it till it was good.

As I recall, I did the fine tune on the bottom end of the standard. My standard has a slight cone at the bottom end so it is more tolerant of oil and dirt and sits cleaner. Because I have a cone, it was easier to shave in on the dimension. I got it within a half thou and I was good with that.

Yes, I've heard of machinists making an adjustable standard. Maybe if I was making one today I would do that. A fine 20 TPI thread would even allow you to dial it in!

A concave base is easy to shave though. Plus it's easier to put in the chuck with the big end out!

The nice thing about making a standard is that it's a fun easy project that can be done a thousand different ways. And when you are done you have one of the most useful lathe tools you will ever own.

Lots of guys put a magnet in the base too. I never did that and prolly never will. The old bolt head made a nice wide base.

Edit - I used a steel bolt. I think aluminium would damage too easily.

 

[jcdammeyer]

You realize I'm now going to have to create yet another project #42

 

[Susquatch]

One more comment.

One of these days I will mill a flat onto the side of it at the top. Others have said that makes it easier to line up with some tools. Since it is round, I can always rotate it for those times a flat isn't perfect.

 

[Upnorth]

First image is what I use to set heights on the mill. Second one sets centre height on the lathe. Both units made by Edge Technology. If you buy the one for the mill there are two versions. I prefer the one with the larger touch down surface.

 

[Former Member]

First image is what I use to set heights on the mill. Second one sets centre height on the lathe. Both units made by Edge Technology. If you buy the one for the mill there are two versions. I prefer the one with the larger touch down surface.

View attachment 28985View attachment 28986

While I love the concept and look of Edge Technology products, the price and accuracy that they work to is somewhat lacking. Lower cost solutions (but more time and effort) yield can more accurate results which on initial set up directly translate into improved consistent results.

On the lathe I love the simple post gauge method, once configured for you lathe is quick simple and accurate, far beyond that of Edge Technology gauge.

 

[DPittman]

While I love the concept and look of Edge Technology products, the price and accuracy that they work to is somewhat lacking. Lower cost solutions (but more time and effort) yield can more accurate results which on initial set up directly translate into improved consistent results.

On the lathe I love the simple post gauge method, once configured for you lathe is quick simple and accurate, far beyond that of Edge Technology gauge.

I really wanted one of those Edge Technologies devices years ago but I could not justify spending the money on them at the time. I'm glad I did not spend the money because as you say, the alternative methods can be better and certainly alot cheaper.

 

[Upnorth]

While I love the concept and look of Edge Technology products, the price and accuracy that they work to is somewhat lacking. Lower cost solutions (but more time and effort) yield can more accurate results which on initial set up directly translate into improved consistent results.

On the lathe I love the simple post gauge method, once configured for you lathe is quick simple and accurate, far beyond that of Edge Technology gauge.

I do agree with you about the tool for the lathe. It is not 100% accurate. There is a tiny amount of variation between tool changes. I'm not sure if this is in the interpretation of the bubble position or the tool actually being clamped in the tool post. It's usually accurate enough so that I have no nub left when facing. This is as accurate as I need on the manual lathe.

The height setter for milling tools is amazingly accurate. I can get it within the width of the painted line on the dial face. .0001". Completely accurate and repeatable. I use that tool to set up the tool table on the CNC mill. The unit has a gauge length of 4" and that comes in handy. When I need to calibrate a probe for example. I set up the reference height with the tool height setter and a master tool. I then remove the tool height setter and put in a 2-4-6 block on the 4" side. This removes any movement from the probe electrical system from the numbers when setting probe gauge length. Without using an electronic height setter it couldn't be easier.

 

[trevj]

I just guess and SEND IT, .200 DOC and see how it feels

Have never bothered to make or use a standard. Have seen all the math worked out, by better mathematicians than I (I count on my fingers until my lips get tired, or my voice gets hoarse), that proved well enough to me, that being a couple thou high or low, usually will not make as much of a difference as leaning on the lathe while it cuts does.

Have used the ruler trick, and taught it a lot, pointing out to the aprentice trainees, that you are going to look pretty dumb, if you have to call a crane back to hold up the work in the lathe, while you set your tool height from the tailstock center....

If I am facing stock in a chuck, the cleanliness of the surface at the center of the part, counts for more than that there is no discernible difference between the tool and the height setter. Adjust until the results are right, rather than they match a so called standard. Same goes for taper in a lengthwise turning job.

Never seen the use for one, that didn't have an answer that was available without grabbing yet another gadget

 

[PeterT]

I just so happen to have my Shars height gauge out the other day on another project & thought hmmm... Once you know your lathe's spindle height (just half the diameter of a dowel pin) its easy to take a direct reading off a tool relative to cross slide table or set it to a specific dimension. I spot checked a few, they are all within a thou. (Gage is probably +/- that & I'm not convinced my toolholder repeats within a thou FWIW).

I typically set the tool by skimming off the end of stock till there is zero nub. Then basically leave the tool in its holder. I'm slowly 29-dollaring myself to death with holders, but it is nice to have them sitting there ready to go.