my S0 from 1967 has just a straight hub like this
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Pregraph Tool and Cutter Grinder, Victoria, $457
- Thread starter mickeyf
- Start date
my S0 from 1967 has just a straight hub like this
!)
oh wild, my apologies for assuming they were all the same!
that looks like the differential socket head screw mine had for the taper hub but idk??? here's a few pictures of mine:
I actually had no idea mine had this taper hub until someone else pointed it out; I had just been changing wheels with the pin drive nut thingy. I guess it was all moot anyways cause I never got another hub for it.
My more current Accusize model is yet again another variant. It does not have a tapered spindle nose but rather just a straight hub. I pulled the spindle cartridge out yesterday. Like the rest of the machine the spindle housing was full of manufacturing swarf , yellow grease/Wax and paint. I cleaned it all up and reassembled with a light coating of way oil. It works much better. I had thought of re-machining the spindle nose to a tapered style or just making a new one but have decided to just leave it as it is for now. The grinding wheels fit it well. There's lots of other remanufacturing I can do that would be of better benefit for now. I would love a Tool and Cutter grinder but for now this machine will be my introduction to grinding.The (very nicely made) Shars hubs link here. They come in 2 wheel hole ID flavors
Grinding Wheel Adapter for 3/4" Arbor Hole
www.shars.com
Hubs are 1:5 taper ratio. So included angle = ArcTan (1/5) = 11.309 deg or 5.65 deg per side
View attachment 60413View attachment 60414
My Accusize is 1:10 taper ratio. its undocumented so first taken by spindle measurements, then validated using arbors & blanks & blueing etc. Accusize does not stock hubs for their own machines even though I've had a conversation with them explaining why they are important to customers. As I subsequently began disassembling & rebuilding my machine & seeing so many other QC issues, maybe that's just as well.
Accusize = ArcTan(1/10) = 5.710 deg included angle = 2.855 deg per side
I only discovered this when the Shars hubs arrived & of course did not fit. But I was able to machine & lap them to suite my spindle.
I'm tagging @Don Sipes on this because same issue recently came up in discussion. My spindle housing was a real piece of work, I considered making a new one & spindle to match Shars taper, but in the end managed to salvage the housing. I'd have to check my notes on the bearing situation but it was good enough for me to carry on for now. I'll eventually do a writeup on my TCG, have a few more things to complete. But knowing what I know today, don't waste your money on this 'casting kit' unless its spit cheap & you want to do remedial work. I have a hunch most of the Ali/Ebay ones are pretty similar based articles & posts I've seen. The Shars (5C collet work head) model is a different machine & much closer to acceptable. Even so, that is the base model Renzetti & Gotteswinter did their own improvements to.
View attachment 60415
I have some Deckel manuals but no spindle dimensions. And as mentioned, I think some re-manufacturers may have cloned this aspect & others may have gone their own way.
appears as a tapered spindle nose
View attachment 60420View attachment 60421
appears as non-tapered spindle nose. Older / original? Deckel?
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Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09TXFSKYJ?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1
I put one of these on the one at work for doing carbide engraving cutters, and bullnose corners. WAY better than a green silicon carbide wheel. A must have.
I put one of these on the one at work for doing carbide engraving cutters, and bullnose corners. WAY better than a green silicon carbide wheel. A must have.
Interesting. That's what my eyes were telling me at the time but I thought, can't be, maybe they changed the taper yet again. Well although I can see benefits to a taper, it is what it is & this simplifies making your own hubs with plain bored holes. But now the shaft/hole fit has to be very good or else any radial runout translates into wheel wobble & that's bad news for grinding. If they are fitting snug you might want to consider some extraction tools. I made these for tapered fittings so your version would look a bit different.
Thinking about this some more, you have the ingredients for maybe a better setup. You could make a split ring collar for the shaft which has straight bore ID & a taper OD to some logical angle. Then your wheel adapters would be machined with exact same angle (maybe using the exact same lathe compound setting during machining). The angle would be unique to your machine but who cares, that's much easier than trying to replicate a 1:5 or 1:10 or 1:whatever 'commercial' adapter standard. The axial split in the collar ensures it can always be expanded slightly for easy removal. Make a few spares while you're at it. Hopefully this makes sense or I can do a sketch.
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Agree, the 'green wheels' are fit for roughing, but are not worth their price for getting a decent finish on the cutting edge of a carbide tool! The first time I got to use a diamond wheel, made me a true believer, as I put a smooth and shiny RAZOR sharp edge on the cutter.
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
Yeah, they're fantastic. I bought one for home too after I left, but still need to make an arbor for it to mount on a bench grinder. I used to use the single lip grinder with diamond wheel to freehand touch up turning inserts, and brazed tooling all the time too. That's the reason I bought one for home.
Have used a fine diamond wheel to touch up (and razor edge!) HSS, on a carbide grinder. Yeah, I know you are not supposed to use diamond on HSS, but... damn! Those mirror finish edges! Scary sharp!
Diamond wheels almost require a decent table or solid support to be used. Pretty easy to ham-hand a bit in to the surface and scrape off most of it's service life! Learn to use a LIGHT touch!
Diamond wheels almost require a decent table or solid support to be used. Pretty easy to ham-hand a bit in to the surface and scrape off most of it's service life! Learn to use a LIGHT touch!
@PeterT do you have this accessory for your Accusize machine?
accusizetools.com
2301-1007-6, MY30A Lathe Tool Grinding Accessories
The Universal End Mill Cutter Drill Bit Grinder Sharpener Accessories diamond grinding machining wheel is typically for the following tools and solutions: Universal End Mill Cutter Drill Bit Grinder Sharpener Accessories diamond grinding machining wheel, etc.
accusizetools.com
@David I believe so, probably sitting in a box of equally underwhelming parts. If you're asking is it worth buying I would say no. Most of my parts didn't even fit one another as intended, never mind another machine. The side rod is meant to engage a matching hole in the underlying dovetail block (mine didn't fit). The dovetails themselves are not machined well & use a collection of different sized poorly made gib strips. The feed screw was a mess. Anyway, I believe it's basically a fixture to hold rectangular stock like cutting tools. But its a crude & limited design. You could make something much better. Especially with a 3DP to quickly prototype & tune the design before committing to metal
For example, different purpose but just to give you ideas. I made a simple plate which has a dovetail profile bolted on underside to match the TCG swing arm. This becomes an extended datum surface to do other useful things, still using the compound to set the various angles. I have an adjustable 'L' stop on the plate, so I can just use my 5C collet block to hold a round cutting tool. Advance it into the wheel to grind a facet. Then flip the block 80-deg & it automatically grinds to exact same depth, no fuss. For grinding tools with rectangular shanks, you would just need a fence to align the shank & reliable means to secure it.
When it comes to wheels there are lots of inexpensive diamond wheels on Ali & such so you can grind & dress carbide very easily. For HSS you are supposed to use AO type wheels or CBN (but not diamond). the holes vary, the hubs vary, the specs vary... a whole subject unto its own. But just to give you heads up. Hope that answers the intended question, otherwise feel free to elaborate.
For example, different purpose but just to give you ideas. I made a simple plate which has a dovetail profile bolted on underside to match the TCG swing arm. This becomes an extended datum surface to do other useful things, still using the compound to set the various angles. I have an adjustable 'L' stop on the plate, so I can just use my 5C collet block to hold a round cutting tool. Advance it into the wheel to grind a facet. Then flip the block 80-deg & it automatically grinds to exact same depth, no fuss. For grinding tools with rectangular shanks, you would just need a fence to align the shank & reliable means to secure it.
When it comes to wheels there are lots of inexpensive diamond wheels on Ali & such so you can grind & dress carbide very easily. For HSS you are supposed to use AO type wheels or CBN (but not diamond). the holes vary, the hubs vary, the specs vary... a whole subject unto its own. But just to give you heads up. Hope that answers the intended question, otherwise feel free to elaborate.
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That's exactly the kind of advice and inspiration I was looking for. Appreciate it!
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gerritv
Gerrit
@David, excellent buy. You will be able to grind all manner of single lip cutters for your cnc router, as well as spade drills and reamers. With imagination drills (4 facet) and the ends of end mills are very doable. (Flutes maybe not so easy). Slitting saws, gear cutters, shell mills all possible as well. The Deckel S0E manual is the most extensive for single lip cutter instructions.
I will send you a PM with an article from MEW that gives details of some very useful additions to your grinder. Including details of the platform that Petert made.
I buy wheels from AliExpress, and made my own arbors for the straight shank Alexander 2CGD that I have. Make a bunch, lets you swap wheels without rebalancing/refacing every time. (to be truthful I haven't bothered balancing any of my wheels
I grind HSS using the diamond wheels (diamond in substrate) wheels all the time. Roughing on the bench grinder of course.
With some imagination these are very useful grinders. A reversible motor can can useful for small bits, they won't dig into the wheel that way.
Gerrit
I will send you a PM with an article from MEW that gives details of some very useful additions to your grinder. Including details of the platform that Petert made.
I buy wheels from AliExpress, and made my own arbors for the straight shank Alexander 2CGD that I have. Make a bunch, lets you swap wheels without rebalancing/refacing every time. (to be truthful I haven't bothered balancing any of my wheels
I grind HSS using the diamond wheels (diamond in substrate) wheels all the time. Roughing on the bench grinder of course.With some imagination these are very useful grinders. A reversible motor can can useful for small bits, they won't dig into the wheel that way.
Gerrit
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Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
Nice job on the hubs. Looks like a pretty versatile setup.
