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Shop Off-grid heating

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I'll stop before I descend into a lecture on human comfort conditions and the best method to deliver heating to machines and humans...

No sweat. Been there done that. I especially love to talk about the differences between the sexes when it comes to Temp/RH.

If @PaulL takes the time to read the Rust thread, he will know more than he wanted to know and will be in good shape to keep rust at bay.
 
No sweat. Been there done that. I especially love to talk about the differences between the sexes when it comes to Temp/RH.

If @PaulL takes the time to read the Rust thread, he will know more than he wanted to know and will be in good shape to keep rust at bay.
I've read it before, and I'll certainly read it again.
Biggest pain is fuel costs when the shop is unattended. Propane comes over on a barge. It's convenient but not cheap, so optimizing that cost is worthwhile.
 
Biggest pain is fuel costs when the shop is unattended. Propane comes over on a barge. It's convenient but not cheap, so optimizing that cost is worthwhile.

I don't know your costs so I can't really comment.

One thing that I've always appreciated having in my shop is a humidity monitor. Mine is simple but effective. It continuously displays the temp and humidity but also stores and displays the min and max humidity which can be reset. That way, I know how bad or good things got each day/night/week and I can use that info to tune my system as needed. As you can see, things are pretty darn good in my shop right now despite how bad things are outside today.

20241104_175535.jpg

If you can find one, a good low temperature Dehumidifier would allow you to minimize heating costs without risking humidity.

The trouble is that most dehumidifiers big enough for your shop are not rated to work well at low temperatures.
 
A number of years ago, after having a perimeter drain put around the house and also the carport (now enclosed shop) I suddenly started having rust problems. Before that never.

So using one of the DHT-22 type modules and a Raspberry PiZeroW I use a web browser to get the temperature and RH from the sensors and calculate the DP. The DHT-22 sensors are very unreliable and inaccurate and seem to fail over time. Ideally a chilled mirror would be best but that's a lot of work or very expensive.

1730764149535.png


I ended up buying a refurbished dehumidifier from PA plus I run a small 1kW fan heater. The temperature tends around 21C because when I'm in and out the side door to the basement is open and there's a furnace duct that almost blows into the shop. That and the mass of all that equipment means that it would take a while before the temperature starts to drop.

And of course the compressor control unit now also reports shop temperature and RH. Might be smarter to add the math and change the RH to dew point.
1730764349068.png


Also shop floor is concrete with no vapour barrier and most of the walls are also concrete with no insulation or vapour barrier. So the big problem is moisture coming in.

Python:
#!/usr/bin/env python
import smbus
import time
import os
import sys
import Adafruit_DHT
import math

sensor = Adafruit_DHT.AM2302
pin = 18
delaytime = 60
print('AM2302server -> DHT.dat logging every '+str(delaytime)+' seconds.')
while True:
    # Try to grab a sensor reading.  Use the read_retry method which will retry up
    # to 15 times to get a sensor reading (waiting 2 seconds between each retry).
    humidity, temperature = Adafruit_DHT.read_retry(sensor, pin)
    H = ((math.log10(humidity)-2)/0.4343)+((17.62*temperature)/(243.12+temperature))
    DewPoint = (243.12*H)/(17.62-H)
    try:
        # file available
        if humidity is not None and temperature is not None:
            res = 'T={0:0.1f}C,RH={1:0.1f}%,DP={2:0.1f}C\n'.format(temperature, humidity, DewPoint)
#           print(res)
            myfile = open('/tmp/DHT.dat', 'w')
            myfile.write(res)
            myfile.close()
        else:
            print('DHTserver: Failed to get reading')
    except:
        # file not available
        print "DHTserver: DHT.dat File Busy"
    # wait a bit_length
    time.sleep(delaytime)
 
A number of years ago, after having a perimeter drain put around the house and also the carport (now enclosed shop) I suddenly started having rust problems. Before that never.

So using one of the DHT-22 type modules and a Raspberry PiZeroW I use a web browser to get the temperature and RH from the sensors and calculate the DP. The DHT-22 sensors are very unreliable and inaccurate and seem to fail over time. Ideally a chilled mirror would be best but that's a lot of work or very expensive.

View attachment 53862

I ended up buying a refurbished dehumidifier from PA plus I run a small 1kW fan heater. The temperature tends around 21C because when I'm in and out the side door to the basement is open and there's a furnace duct that almost blows into the shop. That and the mass of all that equipment means that it would take a while before the temperature starts to drop.

And of course the compressor control unit now also reports shop temperature and RH. Might be smarter to add the math and change the RH to dew point.
View attachment 53863

Also shop floor is concrete with no vapour barrier and most of the walls are also concrete with no insulation or vapour barrier. So the big problem is moisture coming in.

Python:
#!/usr/bin/env python
import smbus
import time
import os
import sys
import Adafruit_DHT
import math

sensor = Adafruit_DHT.AM2302
pin = 18
delaytime = 60
print('AM2302server -> DHT.dat logging every '+str(delaytime)+' seconds.')
while True:
    # Try to grab a sensor reading.  Use the read_retry method which will retry up
    # to 15 times to get a sensor reading (waiting 2 seconds between each retry).
    humidity, temperature = Adafruit_DHT.read_retry(sensor, pin)
    H = ((math.log10(humidity)-2)/0.4343)+((17.62*temperature)/(243.12+temperature))
    DewPoint = (243.12*H)/(17.62-H)
    try:
        # file available
        if humidity is not None and temperature is not None:
            res = 'T={0:0.1f}C,RH={1:0.1f}%,DP={2:0.1f}C\n'.format(temperature, humidity, DewPoint)
#           print(res)
            myfile = open('/tmp/DHT.dat', 'w')
            myfile.write(res)
            myfile.close()
        else:
            print('DHTserver: Failed to get reading')
    except:
        # file not available
        print "DHTserver: DHT.dat File Busy"
    # wait a bit_length
    time.sleep(delaytime)
bulk moisture management is the greatest problem in coastal BC structures. Concrete makes a great wicking material and I'd have a dehumidifier in any scenario there.

yep the sensor accuracy is about 2% of actual rh, and about .5C and can drift 1/2 percent a year, so you need annual calibration. Expect to replace a sensor every 3 years. That's better than the DHT-11 by a mile though.
 
bulk moisture management is the greatest problem in coastal BC structures. Concrete makes a great wicking material and I'd have a dehumidifier in any scenario there.

yep the sensor accuracy is about 2% of actual rh, and about .5C and can drift 1/2 percent a year, so you need annual calibration. Expect to replace a sensor every 3 years. That's better than the DHT-11 by a mile though.
I'm so tired of the DHT-22 series failing that I splurged a while ago and bought two of the Honeywell HIH-7131-000-001
Very expensive at $38 each and I need to make a PC board for them. A carrier perhaps that holds an ESP32.

At the moment I also have 2 of the ESP32's with the DHT-22 running ESPHome connected to Home Assistant. The Outside one is actually sitting in our bedroom at the moment. When it was hot this summer I put it in there to see what temperature we went to sleep at.

1730766783676.png


With ESPHome the ESP32 is plugged into the Pi4 running Home Assistant. HA gives the ability to track what the sensor is doing too.
For example the furnace came on at about 7AM and clearly overnight the house only dropped about 1 degree.
1730767307606.png


So for monitoring the shop on Sidney Island if you install Home Assistance and use a few ESP32's with the DHT-22 sensors you can not only measure but track. HA can also enable a heater or dehumidifier based on set points.
 
The little modules can vary. One is a WeMos ESP8266 and the other is an Adafruit ESP8266. The Adafruit module just has a cable leaving with a connector for a 5V AC Adapter. The WeMos version I put the USB connector right on the edge so I can plug in a USB AC to 5V adapter directly.

1730769452261.png


The DHT-22 is at the other end of the box because it turns out the RF energy affects the sensor and make it report incorrect values. My first box had the DHT-22 sitting above the processor module and it was random as heck. Someone on I think the HandsOnKatie discord forum mentioned that the closeness was causing the problem. So I made a bigger box. The vent holes are there to keep the interior of the box cool.

I have to go hunting for the drawings. I did them sometime this summer but don't remember when or where I put them.

It's possible that the WeMos antenna is also too close to the DHT-22. Should really finish that...
 
The little modules can vary. One is a WeMos ESP8266 and the other is an Adafruit ESP8266. The Adafruit module just has a cable leaving with a connector for a 5V AC Adapter. The WeMos version I put the USB connector right on the edge so I can plug in a USB AC to 5V adapter directly.

View attachment 53867

The DHT-22 is at the other end of the box because it turns out the RF energy affects the sensor and make it report incorrect values. My first box had the DHT-22 sitting above the processor module and it was random as heck. Someone on I think the HandsOnKatie discord forum mentioned that the closeness was causing the problem. So I made a bigger box. The vent holes are there to keep the interior of the box cool.

I have to go hunting for the drawings. I did them sometime this summer but don't remember when or where I put them.

It's possible that the WeMos antenna is also too close to the DHT-22. Should really finish that...

My stuff with data logging cost me hundreds of bucks... all because I have rudimentary electronics skills at best. So many handy things a person can make with such skills
 
Didn't understand a single thing, but the words look neat and there's pictures. :D
I really need to learn to speak electron so I can join in on some of these conversations in a role other than that of the class clown. :rolleyes::p
:D I don't think I spoke too much electron.
Until I stumbled onto the HandsOnKatie you tube videos I'd not even considered networking the house. Even so I've not done much so I'm an amateur. But she's very pretty and very smart so I enjoy her videos and that prompted me to get into Home Assistant.


There are so many tutorials etc. But like say CNC machining or Parametric CAD there's a bit of a steep learning curve. What I do believe is that as we age, challenging ourselves with new things, difficult things and being gentle with ourselves we'll do better with keeping our cognitive capabilities than someone who only plays golf and runs for US President.
 
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