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New to me Hartford Mill

@Susquatch - if you are looking at the spindle and it it turning the cutting edge would travel from right to left - if that makes sense - if you were staring at the draw bar from the top it would be rotating clockwise - you would lock the spindle and turn the draw bar counter clockwise to loosen the collet.

Does that make sense? Really you just want to spin the spindle so that the pulley plates can come back to where they should be with reference to the position of the speed change plate.

Basically that rotary dial on the head tightens or loosens on a chain that is connected to the speed change plate. That plate pulls down or eases off on a spring return pulley half. The pulley half opens or closes forcing the drive belt out or allows it in to effectively change the diameter of the pulley with respect to the motor pulley. The motor pulley travels up and down the motor shaft to keep the belt aligned properly.

I have been looking for some pictures of when I had my mill apart but seem to only be finding shots of smoking meat and drinking beer by the pool ....summer fantasy ? not sure but no mill head pics for some reason....alas.

It is my hope that if you can turn the mill by hand the belt may return to where is normally would be with the reference to the speed control position.

Normally, if you are changing the belt - or want to remove the motor you can dial the speed control to the fastest speed and this will open up the driven pulley and take as much tension off the belt as possible.

If you take off the cover plate to the speed control (two small slot screws_ behind that is 4 allen head screws at will take the speed control off. The speed control should be linked to the speed control plate by a chain and this wee chain will have a turn on the speed control spindle. This assembly is all together and should not come apart on you. Issues that could exist is that the chain is off (10), one of the retaining pins missing (9 and 9a) ? The worm gear (30) is not pinned (15)
Untitled.jpg

You will be able to see inside the head at this point and you can check if the belt is all proper and the pulleys are correct. - if one of the motor drive pulleys is stuck or the speed selector plate is not connected or something is missing to allow the selector plate to operate correctly.

ghj.jpg
 
Crap. Looks to me like you folks are right and it really is 220V. But it looks like it's 3Phase instead of a regular 220V motor. So I'll need a VFD (or transformer) to run it anyway. I had really hoped to just plug it in so I could evaluate it better. Looks like that isn't gunna happen.
 
Susquatch said:
Crap. Looks to me like you folks are right and it really is 220V. But it looks like it's 3Phase instead of a regular 220V motor. So I'll need a VFD (or transformer) to run it anyway. I had really hoped to just plug it in so I could evaluate it better. Looks like that isn't gunna happen.
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Do you have single phase 220V available?
 
YYCHM said:
Do you have single phase 220V available?
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Yes. But shop is wired for welding with no neutral. (idiots tried to save pennies). If I need the neutral, I'll have to run a wire to the panel box.
 
Susquatch said:
Yes. But shop is wired for welding with no neutral. (idiots tried to save pennies). If I need the neutral, I'll have to run a wire to the panel box.
Click to expand...

Here ya go LOL:p

Wiring.jpg


This is the wiring diagram that came with my VFD.....o_O
 
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Susquatch said:
I think you should have tried to save money on the shipping and gotten one with English instructions........

But I'm pickin up what yer puttin down. I need to get a VFD.
Click to expand...

That VFD was an adventure to say the least.

As for requiring ground to make it work, I'm thinking not. Have a close look at where ground ties into in your breaker box. It's the same bus neutral is tied to. I have a single phase motor that has no dedicated ground wire connection point. I learned lots installing my 220V circuit.
 
Shouldn't need a neutral for 220V single phase. The neutral would be if you want 120V. You will need a vfd or phase converter to get three phase.
 
YYCHM said:
That VFD was an adventure to say the least.

As for requiring ground to make it work, I'm thinking not. Have a close look at where ground ties into in your breaker box. It's the same bus neutral is tied to. I have a single phase motor that has no dedicated ground wire connection point. I learned lots installing my 220V circuit.
Click to expand...

Yes, Neutrals are often tied to ground, but they are not really the same. Grounds don't carry any current (or at least they shouldn't), but neutrals do. If you ever install a subpanel, the electrical code requires that you disconnect the ground from the neutral there in order to prevent current from flowing through the ground circuit.

I suppose you could use a ground as a neutral but I'd be afraid of doing that. Any loose connection would be a fatality or a fire waiting to happen.

You guys have all convinced me to get a VFD regardless of which mill I end up keeping. It's just that it would have been nice to test the Bridgeport before that.

Besides, I wanna play with at least one of them a little teeny tiny bit......
 
Hruul said:
Shouldn't need a neutral for 220V single phase. The neutral would be if you want 120V. You will need a vfd or phase converter to get three phase.
Click to expand...

I would not have thought so either. I would think that motors that require the neutral are rare. But I have seen a few systems where it is needed internally. The best examples are devices that include 115V components (eg lights). Anyway, my Bridgeport motor is 3 phase and the Hartford is 550 so I'm dead in water with both until I get a VFD.
 
Susquatch said:
Yes, Neutrals are often tied to ground, but they are not really the same. Grounds don't carry any current (or at least they shouldn't), but neutrals do. If you ever install a subpanel, the electrical code requires that you disconnect the ground from the neutral there in order to prevent current from flowing through the ground circuit.
Click to expand...

I agree with the statement grounds don't usually carry current unless something is amiss. What is ground connected to in circuits coming out of subpanels?
 
YYCHM said:
What is ground connected to in circuits coming out of subpanels?
Click to expand...
You run grounds in sup-panels back to the main entrance panel ground - separately. Same with neutrals: they run back to the main panel separately. It’s only inside the main service entrance panel where they are allowed to be bussed together and a single, correctly sized, grounding wire is run outside to the grounding rod/plate. That rules goes for any sub panel connected to the service, even if the sub is not located in the same building - grounds and neutrals must be separated.
 
YYCHM said:
I agree with the statement grounds don't usually carry current unless something is amiss. What is ground connected to in circuits coming out of subpanels?
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What @ Robinhood said is correct.

A single point connection in the main panel does not create a closed circuit. The idea is to prevent normal current from flowing in the ground circuit (and therefore to also prevent current flow in the frames of grounded housings). It also provides a way to trip ground fault circuit protection devices and various other similar protection devices.
 
Dabbler said:
It may be that this motor is an economical one for your Hartford, if you are going VFD:

https://www.emotorsdirect.ca/item/leeson-171754.00

You need a C face motor to bolt it to the top of the machine....
Click to expand...

Mother Nature finally stopped crying and I was able to get the last of my crops in today. The hunt for knowledge and parts for my mills can begin in earnest now.

I'm pretty convinced that I'll go with the VFD on the Hartford and probably not on the Bridgeport.

How do I know what shaft size to get?

Do all C face motors have the same bolt size spacing?

Do I also need a 2-spd motor?
 
Susquatch said:
How do I know what shaft size to get?
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Because this is offshore, it is best to remove your motor and measure the shaft - you are going to remove it anyway.

Susquatch said:
Do all C face motors have the same bolt size spacing?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily - but you can drill the plate to suit the bolt spacing. In many cases, a C flange motor for 2HP will be the same spacing and size of threads, because electricians like standards....

Susquatch said:
Do I also need a 2-spd motor?
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Not if you are using a VFD. You can easily use a quality Vector Sensorless Drive VFD from 200RPM to 3000 RPM, given the load ranges of a typical milling machine. A 2 speed motor would give you 1725 and 3600 RPM, and you'd get 4 speeds in each range due to belt changes. The VFD gives you almost all that range. I use mine is one of the medium ranges, and use the back gear (when it is installed) for really low speeds.
 
Dabbler said:
Because this is offshore, it is best to remove your motor and measure the shaft - you are going to remove it anyway.



Not necessarily - but you can drill the plate to suit the bolt spacing. In many cases, a C flange motor for 2HP will be the same spacing and size of threads, because electricians like standards....



Not if you are using a VFD. You can easily use a quality Vector Sensorless Drive VFD from 200RPM to 3000 RPM, given the load ranges of a typical milling machine. A 2 speed motor would give you 1725 and 3600 RPM, and you'd get 4 speeds in each range due to belt changes. The VFD gives you almost all that range. I use mine is one of the medium ranges, and use the back gear (when it is installed) for really low speeds.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll pull both motors and measure the shafts as soon as the boss (bride of 50 years) leaves me alone for a while.

I notice that both my mills have to same bolt size and mounting pattern. It would be good to stick with that if I can. But an adapter plate is not a big deal.

Shopping for a high quality VFD now. I read the manual you sent me the link for and also reviewed several intros on-line. I have calls in to several manufacturers to assess options and recommendations. I'm thinking this is one place where cheaping out is not a good idea. I'd like to get something that I can use in multiple applications and if possible that will support a single phase motor. I think good tech support is also a good idea since I am a total newbie w VFD's.

I noticed that most manufacturers actually call their VFDs inverters. I can see why, but it made me wonder why they don't offer models that step up the voltage too? If they can make units that step up 12VDC to 120 and even 240AC, then why not 240 single phase to 550 3-phase? I bet that capability arrives a few months after I buy....
 
Pretty sure the back gear is installed in both mills. They both have a second "timing" belt. I assume that's for the back gear but what do I know? Also, the Hartford is 8 speed. Need to confirm.
 
Susquatch said:
they don't offer models that step up the voltage too
Click to expand...

oh, but they do. they are more rare, and they cost more. That could be the way to utilize the 500V motor... but I think you'll pay over $1000 US for it, unless you go offshore. That is why I didn't suggest it in the first place.
 
Dabbler said:
That could be the way to utilize the 500V motor... but I think you'll pay over $1000 US for it, unless you go offshore.
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Ouch!

Then again, motor + VFD + adapters + controls .........

Then yet again, two fully working mills and maybe a 40rpm lathe. ......
 
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