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New CX 709 motor problems
- Thread starter Todd McBride
- Start date
Todd McBride
Member
Finally got the replacement 300MFD capacitor Monday. I first swapped the 60uF run capacitor in and that brought me back to the original problem, the lathe only starts after giving the chuck a throw. Then I put in the start capacitor they sent and it made no difference. That was Tuesday and I haven't been able to get any useful response from them since, not in the store nor from head quarters.
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Does it do the same thing at all RPM settings? Set it to low RPM - does it do the same?
If it only does it in high RPM setting and its cold then replace oil with something thinner like ISO 32.
Long time ago when I had BB lathe it would throw breaker at 700 rpm all the time.
Actually I had the SAME lathe from BB - they just called it I think 089 back then or something almost 13" swing and like 24" bed.
Alternatively warm up the lathe for minimum of 15min at low RPM. Then go higher RPM no load and then finally do work.
Note the lathe will start immediately at high RPM, will make strained motor noise for about 10s and then throw the breaker - similar to what you described.
If it only does it in high RPM setting and its cold then replace oil with something thinner like ISO 32.
Long time ago when I had BB lathe it would throw breaker at 700 rpm all the time.
Actually I had the SAME lathe from BB - they just called it I think 089 back then or something almost 13" swing and like 24" bed.
Alternatively warm up the lathe for minimum of 15min at low RPM. Then go higher RPM no load and then finally do work.
Note the lathe will start immediately at high RPM, will make strained motor noise for about 10s and then throw the breaker - similar to what you described.
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as you suggest (and others) I think you need to look at the start circuit. If the contacts remained closed, it would start but not run properly.
Can you post some pictures of the capacitors and motor data plate.
Going way out on a limb here, but the YL-90L4 motor is made in both single voltage (220V) and dual voltage 110V/220V versions. Maybe it is connected wrong from the factory?
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
If motor is connected wrong from the factory - i.e. if it is connected as in 240V but gets only 120V it would be same as if it only had 1/3 of the rated name plate power or so. Thus the effect would be same as if the oil was thick and what I have described - i.e.
lathe starts immediately but motor makes noise then throws the breaker. So yes, check if it is wired correctly and check whatever motors runs fine without any load.
lathe starts immediately but motor makes noise then throws the breaker. So yes, check if it is wired correctly and check whatever motors runs fine without any load.
Hard to know for sure, but 'giving it a throw' is equivalent to what the centrifugal switch (or equivalent) does: once its up to a certain rpm. The CS weights come out, the points contact (or break contact depending on the switch) & the starter cap is taken out of the circuit leaving the run cap in. So if the CS wiring or points or orientation is not quite right at rest, the starter cap cant do its job & get the motor running from zero to transition rpm. I mean it could be other things, but this is a possible lead if you haven't already examined or replaced CS.
Todd McBride
Member
My BB CX 709 worked just fine for the first few hours at low and high speeds as we were trying it out. Then one time when it was turned on it just hummed and needed the boost to start. It turns freely and does the same thing low speed or not, warm or cold. Its workable in this condition but the shop safety guy isn't pleased!
Based on the information posted here I took the rear plate and fan off hoping to find and adjust a centrifugal switch. Under the tin cap there was just a simple plastic fan pressed onto the shaft and nothing under that but the casting holding the bearing housing. Unbolted that too and found only the ball bearing and the armature windings, no sign of a centrifugal switch. Maybe its in the other end, the drive end? Seems unlikely and I would need a gear puller to remove the pulley to get at it.
At this point I will disconnect the wiring and take the whole motor in to Busy Bee to see if I can get some service that way.
Based on the information posted here I took the rear plate and fan off hoping to find and adjust a centrifugal switch. Under the tin cap there was just a simple plastic fan pressed onto the shaft and nothing under that but the casting holding the bearing housing. Unbolted that too and found only the ball bearing and the armature windings, no sign of a centrifugal switch. Maybe its in the other end, the drive end? Seems unlikely and I would need a gear puller to remove the pulley to get at it.
At this point I will disconnect the wiring and take the whole motor in to Busy Bee to see if I can get some service that way.
Todd McBride
Member
It worked just fine for the first few hours so I don't think it was wired wrong from the factory. At this point I have it about removed and will take it in for exchange.
Todd McBride
Member
I understand a basic induction motor has zero torque until it starts to turn and that is why it needs a kick, or that starter circuit. The lathe is usable as is but the safety guy is not amused. Could be worse, the saw starts by its self with no kick!
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Lots see what BB does - they should just swap the motor but I wonder how long you have to wait.
Does it have same issues with no load at all?
There also could be a burned starter (auxiliary) winding. Hence no adjustment of the switch nor capacitor will help. Or switch has contacts burned.
The motors in these lathes plus thick oil and Canadian garage temperatures don't equate good operation.
Does it have same issues with no load at all?
There also could be a burned starter (auxiliary) winding. Hence no adjustment of the switch nor capacitor will help. Or switch has contacts burned.
The motors in these lathes plus thick oil and Canadian garage temperatures don't equate good operation.
Todd McBride
Member
Any recommendation on what I change the oil out to? Should I be using synthetic like I do in my Chevy? Maybe I will just put the milkhouse heater closer to the lathe if/when I work in colder weather.
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
I replaced oil in the lathe with ISO 32 oil which you can easily get from Princess Auto. In fact I think its on sale now. ISO 32 is recommended oil for low speed lathes like what you have. You can get multi-season ISO 32 oil - what that means it has viscosity additives making it viscous even at lower temperatures - similar concept to a car 5W-30 in the 5W portion. For high speed spindles people and myself go with much thinner oil, like ISO 22 or even ISO 15. In other areas of machinery the lower the speed the higher ISO, the higher the speed the lower the ISO as general rule.
Todd McBride
Member
How much oil does it take? I see Princess has AW 32 oil in 5 gallon pails and assume that is way more than I require.
Todd McBride
Member
The continuing CX 709 motor saga. Latest is I took the motor off and returned it to Busy Bee. They are sending me a new one that I should receive early next week.
DPittman
Ultra Member
Glad to hear that you won't have to wait a month of Sunday's for the motor. That should get you up and running I would think! You've got steam projects to get to darn it!
Todd McBride
Member
Picked up that oil on sale at Princess. Any good ideas for draining the existing oil? I found the plug under a plate down between the ways and it looks like it will make a hell of a mess draining. Did you invent any way to contain it without flooding the whole pan? Was even thinking of trying to suck or syphon it out the top through the fill plug.
