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First Milling Machine $452 Mississauga Ont
- Thread starter combustable herbage
- Start date
First off, congratulations on scoring a First mill, hopefully it'll be in suitable shape for you to get some good mileage out of it. If its condition can be judged from the general look of it in the photo then it looks pretty good and doesn't seem abused. I have a First LC 1-1/2 TM and I can say I'm pleased with how it's built and that I can still order parts if I ever need. From what I read, the First mills are well thought of. 1010 kg is about right. @Susquatch I don't know what the 1 1/2 refers to, the LC 1-1/2 family came with 2 & 3 HP, my TM is a 2, maybe some important dimension was 1.5 meters?
OK, to the current problem, getting it back to home base in one piece. When I bought my machine that was one of the first things I had to figure out and I went down the same path as you, talking to crane, trucking & towing companies and I came away unconvinced. Price could be through the roof and then there was the guy with the tilt bed that said it was easy, just tilt it up until it slides off.......I was interested in something a bit more controllable and risk managed so what worked for me was to hire a U-Haul trailer & half ton.
The key to the move for me was putting the machine on a castored dolly and rolling it up onto the trailer (come-along) and reversing the process at the other end. The best way would be to find someone with a fork lift on both ends but if you don't have that you have to find other ways to get the job done safely.
If you're interested then see Post 12 of the thread I created about my purchase. There's more on the dolly at Post 32. Bottom line for me was I could plan exactly what was going to happen and follow the plan because I was the one in control.
Hope that's helpful & good luck!
D
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Thanks for the info, Dave!
You’ve reassured me about my one concern, the weight rating on the ramp for those U-Haul trailers. I’ll see what I can dig up to lay on top of it, help spread the load out a bit, and keep things moving more smoothly.
A coworker actually already suggested we use the wheeled frame his Cazeneuve lathe is on, which I suspect would work great. Just have to get the lathe off of it in a cramped shop.
Sorry if folks are hoping these are coming home with me, but they’re headed for my day job. Upside, there’s a forklift and pallet jack waiting. (Plus, I have a key, my boss doesn’t mind me in there evenings and weekends, and it’s only 2km away.
)
You’ve reassured me about my one concern, the weight rating on the ramp for those U-Haul trailers. I’ll see what I can dig up to lay on top of it, help spread the load out a bit, and keep things moving more smoothly.
A coworker actually already suggested we use the wheeled frame his Cazeneuve lathe is on, which I suspect would work great. Just have to get the lathe off of it in a cramped shop.
Sorry if folks are hoping these are coming home with me, but they’re headed for my day job. Upside, there’s a forklift and pallet jack waiting. (Plus, I have a key, my boss doesn’t mind me in there evenings and weekends, and it’s only 2km away.
)
I have a First LC 1-1/2 TM and I can say I'm pleased with how it's built and that I can still order parts if I ever need. From what I read, the First mills are well thought of. 1010 kg is about right. @Susquatch I don't know what the 1 1/2 refers to, the LC 1-1/2 family came with 2 & 3 HP, my TM is a 2, maybe some important dimension was 1.5 meters?
Thanks for that clarification Dave. IMHO, such things should be somewhat of a standard so one can look at a model number and know the basic details. Like a LEE 612 surface grinder has a 6x12 vise. Or a 1440 Lathe has a 14" Swing and a 40 inch bed. But I guess that's all just wishful thinking on my part.
Glad you were able to help with factual information. Nothing beats hard data from an actual user.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
@Stuart Samuel physically go to the rental place and measure the ramp, so you know what you need in terms of dimensions and method of attachment. There are a lot of ways to skin this cat... Every person probably has their way.
In terms of economics, I think it would be better to spend a little, because of the tremendous bargains you've landed - no need to go wild, but here's my thoughts... PA has trailer ramp ends (SKU 8967960) which you can cascade to make a wide ramp, perhaps 4 of them (4X750 lbs capacity), and a few 2X8s with a bevel cut on the other end. The could be tied together with 3/4 plywood (underneath) to help with the sharing of the load when loading and unloading... Have a look at the trailer and use a tape measure to figure how long your ramp has to be.
(If you have forklift at both ends, ignore the above paragraph)
My First 9X49 mill weighs just over 3800 lbs - so I assume the new ones are a little lighter (Hienmann machinery says they weigh just over 1000 Kg)
To move the mill, save yourself a lot of headache - remove the head if you can. If the vendor is willing, you can take the whole ram and head assembly off all at once, buy removing the bolts on the spider, below the turret. This takes 5-10 minutes, but you need an engine crane or forklift to handle the 450lbs assembly.
If you do this, the mill is now a lot less tippy, and now your heaviest piece is about 1500 lbs - a lot safer to move (ask me how I know)
In terms of economics, I think it would be better to spend a little, because of the tremendous bargains you've landed - no need to go wild, but here's my thoughts... PA has trailer ramp ends (SKU 8967960) which you can cascade to make a wide ramp, perhaps 4 of them (4X750 lbs capacity), and a few 2X8s with a bevel cut on the other end. The could be tied together with 3/4 plywood (underneath) to help with the sharing of the load when loading and unloading... Have a look at the trailer and use a tape measure to figure how long your ramp has to be.
(If you have forklift at both ends, ignore the above paragraph)
My First 9X49 mill weighs just over 3800 lbs - so I assume the new ones are a little lighter (Hienmann machinery says they weigh just over 1000 Kg)
To move the mill, save yourself a lot of headache - remove the head if you can. If the vendor is willing, you can take the whole ram and head assembly off all at once, buy removing the bolts on the spider, below the turret. This takes 5-10 minutes, but you need an engine crane or forklift to handle the 450lbs assembly.
If you do this, the mill is now a lot less tippy, and now your heaviest piece is about 1500 lbs - a lot safer to move (ask me how I know
)
Thanks for the suggestions, Dave! Good advice.
Went to check the machines out, yesterday. Neither under power, unfortunately, but both look decent. Mill has a decent selection of collets, everything feels smooth enough. Backlash in X and Y are comparable to the other First we have at the shop.
Happily, it turns out they do have a forklift at their end, and are perfectly willing to load the machines.
Went to check the machines out, yesterday. Neither under power, unfortunately, but both look decent. Mill has a decent selection of collets, everything feels smooth enough. Backlash in X and Y are comparable to the other First we have at the shop.
Happily, it turns out they do have a forklift at their end, and are perfectly willing to load the machines.
3800 is more in line with what I had heard. Thanks for that. Now I know I'm not crazy. Well, maybe just not as crazy as I feared.
Someday I may have to break, down, and learn about all their different models. Firsts are held in very high regard around here.
To move the mill, save yourself a lot of headache - remove the head if you can. If the vendor is willing, you can take the whole ram and head assembly off all at once, buy removing the bolts on the spider, below the turret. This takes 5-10 minutes, but you need an engine crane or forklift to handle the 450lbs assembly.
If you do this, the mill is now a lot less tippy, and now your heaviest piece is about 1500 lbs - a lot safer to move (ask me how I know
^^^ this is great advice. I guess it all depends on how much weight your forklifts can handle.
If you do take the whole top off from the turret up, watch out that the retaining spider does not fall when the last bolt is removed. You can reach up inside through the side door to hold it. Apparently, you can make a new one if it does fall and break inside, but why make work for nothing.
@Susquatch Lol! You’re not crazy or at least not any more crazy than most of us here but if you just have to know, you can get the real dope straight from the horse’s mouth on the Long Chang (first.com.tw) web site.
Models and their weights. That page is just like looking at the Christmas catalogs when you were a (smaller) kid!
Scanning quickly I saw between 1 metric ton for mine to 2 tonne for a big one, an LC-205. I don’t know what the 205 refers to, maybe the stardate?
We return you from the OCD driven side track to your regularly scheduled programming…..
D
@Stuart Samuel When I had my First delivered, the step that worked was a local mini-crane operator. Had a little HIAB-like think that could squeeze up my narrow driveway and drop it in front of my garage door, directly on the rollers I used to move it the rest of the way. Totally worth the $300.
I've never been a car guy, but when I see a little truck with a crane, I think 'I could move so much stuff!'
Uh-huh...
Just had to ruin it for me didn't you!
How does that old saying go? If you think there is no chance that you are crazy, then you probably are.
That was a tight squeeze for my old Tacoma, so that must have been a really little HIAB. lol
My understanding is that it is their clone of a Bridgeport 1.5HP. Only First has made some upgrades including a 2HP motor. Their naming convention is what the equivalent Bridgeport would be. That’s the explanation I found when I got mine and had the same question at least.
So, at long last, an update!
I was so excited about the machines, I thought ‘you know what, I’ll go to my neighbour’s Halloween party the following Saturday, get Covid, and spread it around at work!’
Two weeks later, after everyone was over it, my boss pointed out that Kevin, our ‘guy with a cube van’ might be willing to move the machines. Yep, $400 to move the pair. Which, compared to the U-haul rental and two people times, say, three hours wages, when we’re already behind on work… great deal.
I was pretty worried about Kevin moving the machines, as I wasn’t sure he had experience with it, but he managed. I’d forgotten he has cleats down the sides of the van, which he can mount bars in to keep things from shifting. The mill crushed the skid it was on, but only far enough to bring the underside of the dovetail into contact with the bars. Once we got a pump truck in under the machine, it forced the skid boards level. Moved it as close as we could to the tail end of the truck, and picked it with the forklift. Easy as pie.
I was so excited about the machines, I thought ‘you know what, I’ll go to my neighbour’s Halloween party the following Saturday, get Covid, and spread it around at work!’
Two weeks later, after everyone was over it, my boss pointed out that Kevin, our ‘guy with a cube van’ might be willing to move the machines. Yep, $400 to move the pair. Which, compared to the U-haul rental and two people times, say, three hours wages, when we’re already behind on work… great deal.
I was pretty worried about Kevin moving the machines, as I wasn’t sure he had experience with it, but he managed. I’d forgotten he has cleats down the sides of the van, which he can mount bars in to keep things from shifting. The mill crushed the skid it was on, but only far enough to bring the underside of the dovetail into contact with the bars. Once we got a pump truck in under the machine, it forced the skid boards level. Moved it as close as we could to the tail end of the truck, and picked it with the forklift. Easy as pie.
Attachments
slow-poke
Ultra Member
I did most of my business in the USA for quite a while, don't have to collect HST, don't have to submit HST and $1 in = $1.37 cdn what's not to like?
Got the machines off and into the shop (this was last Wednesday), but had no time to do anything more. Stayed late Friday, and started shuffling machines around to make space.
Little tour, plus photos of the mill:
The machine shop. Office is directly behind, assembly is to the left past four bays of racking.
Building’s from 1889, started as a stamping factory, switched to wallpaper in 1908. 26’ ceiling in the middle!
Machinery Row. Older Southbend closest, a Microweily past that, and our original First mill.
The mill! Gradually cleaning it up and fixing things ‘after work’.
I was a bit dubious about what I found in the oiler reservoir, but I would have forgiven them if they’d pulled the damned lever on occasion. Luckily after pumping almost a full reservoir through, the lines appear to be clear. Reverse ball trip lever was sheared off, got it out and picked up a replacement from Heinman in Missisauga, $36 plus tax. The plunger appeared to be installed upside down, so that if you raised the quill forcefully, it would shear the lever. :/
Continuing on the tour:
Old Elliot/Victoria mill one of the guys in the shop is trying to resurrect.
Facing the same direction as the first photo, but standing farther to the right. 8’ shear, 8’ 45 ton press. Welding shop in the back corner, with a spinning lathe adjacent.
Not shown/hard to see: Two cold saws, roll in bandsaw, 30” Startrite bandsaw, 14” Rockwell bandsaw, sandblaster, etc. etc.
Little tour, plus photos of the mill:
Building’s from 1889, started as a stamping factory, switched to wallpaper in 1908. 26’ ceiling in the middle!
Machinery Row. Older Southbend closest, a Microweily past that, and our original First mill.
The mill! Gradually cleaning it up and fixing things ‘after work’.
I was a bit dubious about what I found in the oiler reservoir, but I would have forgiven them if they’d pulled the damned lever on occasion. Luckily after pumping almost a full reservoir through, the lines appear to be clear. Reverse ball trip lever was sheared off, got it out and picked up a replacement from Heinman in Missisauga, $36 plus tax. The plunger appeared to be installed upside down, so that if you raised the quill forcefully, it would shear the lever. :/
Continuing on the tour:
Facing the same direction as the first photo, but standing farther to the right. 8’ shear, 8’ 45 ton press. Welding shop in the back corner, with a spinning lathe adjacent.
Not shown/hard to see: Two cold saws, roll in bandsaw, 30” Startrite bandsaw, 14” Rockwell bandsaw, sandblaster, etc. etc.
