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Tool Face Mill recommendations please

Tool
Just about out of time here today. I will try to post something from amazon. I'm not a user of these but will give you a good idea.


Although these types of high feed cutters are not really meant for facing, you could, but you just need to keep in mind of what stepover you will need to take depending on what diameter you choose. Then watch for steps between stepovers depending on how good your mill is squared up.

This style is,
Excellent for roughing, semi finishing, and finishing over the square and or rectangle inserts. They have a good chip breaker as well depending on how much $ you want to spend on inserts.
I would start off on the cheap, little chip breaker, cheaper coating, ( ali perhaps ) then step up once you get comfortable with these types of inserts, coatings and chip breaker styles.

You will be sizing walls with an endmill anyway in most cases, so the need for square corner inserts are really of no benefit these days IMHO.

Plus, these style inserts will last much longer, take more abuse, while keeping the heat at a minimum while your figuring out your speeds and feeds for your mill.
Hope this helps some!
 
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I was told that the more cutters you have just increases your facing speed because of the reduced size of the chip being produced by each cutter.
 
Tom O said:
I was told that the more cutters you have just increases your facing speed because of the reduced size of the chip being produced by each cutter.
Click to expand...

Depending on the machine I would say yes. ( Boring mill or the old Cincinnati's, droop and reins etc..)
However, for a smaller manual mill less inserts is better due to chatter. This is why, some guys including myself, will pull 2 inserts out of a 4 pocket tool in order to eliminate this.
Not so much with mild steels, but sometimes you need to remove several when machining tool steels as another member mentioned earlier.
At times, new inserts are worse than used depending on the tool stickout along with how many inserts the cutter has.
This has been my experience over the years.
 
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slow-poke said:
45 or 90 degree?
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Others have suggested 45. I don't know why. Mine are all 90.

Although I'm not 100% on this, I think the 90s will do edges and steps and the 45s wont. I also like the 90 style insert better. If you can wait, I'll get you a better photo of the inserts and face mill tomorrow.
 
45 is a more gradual approach for the edge into the cut, which makes a the cutting action a bit less violent. Less “thunk thunk”. Not going to do steps but you can always have other tools for that.

One of the reasons I don’t hate the TPG triangular face mills is that they do pretty well in both steel and aluminum. On aluminum though you need a bit of WD40 or alcohol to keep chips from sticking to the insert.
 
If you're really concerned about a more gradual approach one can use round inserts. Even gentler than the 45-degree ones!
 
The issue I'm having at the moment is trying to find a suitable face milling arbor. My LC 30 mill uses a MT3 taper with a 3/8-16 drawbar. Its not too hard to find MT3 taper but everyone that I have found so far has a M12 thread not 3/8-16.

There is one available from Grizzly, however it's not clear what the spigot diameter is, I'm looking into that. https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-mt3-arbor-for-g2861/g2863

Unfortunately because of where my mill is located (low ceiling in basement) I can't remove the drawbar or I would simply make a M12 drawbar. Not sure if using some sort of helicoil or thread adapter would work? I would have to be sure it stays in the arbor, because if it decided to unthread from the arbor but stay on the drawbar I would be in a bit of a pickle.

So if anyone knows where I can get a suitable facemill arbor please let me know.
 
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slow-poke said:
The issue I'm having at the moment is trying to find a suitable face milling arbor. My LC 30 mill uses a MT3 taper with a 3/8-16 drawbar. Its not too hard to find MT3 taper but everyone that I have found so far has a M12 thread not 3/8-16.

There is one available from Grizzly, however it's not clear what the spigot diameter is, I'm looking into that. https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-mt3-arbor-for-g2861/g2863

Unfortunately because of where my mill is located (low ceiling in basement) I can't remove the drawbar or I would simply make a M12 drawbar. Not sure if using some sort of helicoil or thread adapter would work? I would have to be sure it stays in the arbor, because if it decided to unthread from the arbor but stay on the drawbar I would be in a bit of a pickle.

So if anyone knows where I can get a suitable facemill arbor please let me know.
Click to expand...

slow-poke said:
The issue I'm having at the moment is trying to find a suitable face milling arbor. My LC 30 mill uses a MT3 taper with a 3/8-16 drawbar. Its not too hard to find MT3 taper but everyone that I have found so far has a M12 thread not 3/8-16.

There is one available from Grizzly, however it's not clear what the spigot diameter is, I'm looking into that. https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-mt3-arbor-for-g2861/g2863

Unfortunately because of where my mill is located (low ceiling in basement) I can't remove the drawbar or I would simply make a M12 drawbar. Not sure if using some sort of helicoil or thread adapter would work? I would have to be sure it stays in the arbor, because if it decided to unthread from the arbor but stay on the drawbar I would be in a bit of a pickle.

So if anyone knows where I can get a suitable facemill arbor please let me know.
Click to expand...
Is the Grizzly face mill unit not a consideration?
 
slow-poke said:
So if anyone knows where I can get a suitable facemill arbor please let me know.
Click to expand...

3/8 is 0.375 is 9.5mm
12mm is 0.4724.

I'd be surprised if a 12mm drawbar would even fit your spindle.

You might be able to make an adapter though. I didn't do the math but I'm thinking about a helicoil type adapter that gets silver soldered in. Concentricity is important but not critical.

Those face mill arbours come in 1/4 inch increments from 1/2 to 1-1/2 (maybe more). I'm not sure what sizes are available in metric. You might also have to make a pair of drive dogs.

You might be in luck though. I would be willing to bet that I have an MT3 face mill arbour I'm not using anymore. I was saving this stuff to sell with my mill/drill but you can have it if it fits.

I owe you some insert photos anyway. If SWMBO let's me out to dribble someplace (see what you have done @PeterT!!! ), I'll get out to the shop and see if I have an arbour.
 
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You are indeed in luck. I don't have a single MT3 arbour. I HAVE THREE! One is yours if you want it.

20230221_091600.jpg


All three are 3/8-16 MT3.

All three are also 1" stubs. But one has a 3/8-16 retainer, and the other two have 9/16-12 retainers.

Here are photos of the rectangular APKT Inserts in steel, stainless, and aluminium. I have used all three and I can say that they work great on my 2HP Hartford Bridgeport Clone with an R8 Arbour.

Yes, there is a tap tap tap sound as the cutter starts to engage the side of the work. It doesn't bother me nor does it affect the quality of the cut. I agree with others that the 45s and especially the rounds would be gentler on entry. Personally, I don't think it really matters much one way or the other for that. However, I'd guess that round would probably leave a better trail between passes if that matters. I like not having to change tools for transitions and the vast majority of my transitions are 90s. The other thing is that I like to standardize inserts. My impression, right or wrong, is that the 90s are more common.

Pick your poison!

20230221_091945.jpg


20230221_092051.jpg


20230221_092217.jpg
 
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For others helping out.

@slow-poke is now looking for a 2" face mill head that fits a 1" stub arbour. The two drive dogs are 3/8. The stub screw isn't a big deal. A plate and washer can be made to fit almost anything.
 
Susquatch said:
For others helping out.

@slow-poke is now looking for a 2" face mill head that fits a 1" stub arbour. The two drive dogs are 3/8. The stub screw isn't a big deal. A plate and washer can be made to fit almost anything.
Click to expand...

I'm also interested in a 2" to 2 1/2"face mill that fits a 1" stub arbour. I have the arbour.

Pictures please along with details.
 
Dusty said:
@YYCHM hey Craig, I also have this type of face mill never used it. Could you expand on the issues you found with triangular insert cutters?
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The inserts aren't very sharp and they aren't secured to the head very well. I'm not convinced all the insert cutting tips are in the same plane (i.e. on cuts more than the other two). It does work, but doesn't leave a great finish IMHO.

Try loosening the insert hold down screws.... The ones on mine are brutally tight.
 
YYCHM said:
The inserts aren't very sharp and they aren't secured to the head very well. I'm not convinced all the insert cutting tips are in the same plane (i.e. on cuts more than the other two). It does work, but doesn't leave a great finish IMHO.

Try loosening the insert hold down screws.... The ones on mine are brutally tight.
Click to expand...

My insert screws are a firm fit and not overly tight. Actually I've not had reason to use the face mill and with the motor only being 3/4 hp I'm somewhat hesitant cluck, cluck, cluck.
 
@Dusty & @slow-poke - I found this on Ali.

Screenshot_20230221_165308_AliExpress.jpg


Note the 25.4 dimension down about 3/4 of the way down the list. That 25.4 is exactly 1".

The first one is roughy 2.5 inches and the second is roughly 3 inches

The drive dogs are wrong, but they can be made to fit. Same goes for the stub retainer.

I'm gunna keep looking but one of these might be worth a try.

Here is the link:

Clamped CNC Cutting Steel Right-Angle End Mill Precision Face Milling Cutter
 
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For price cannot beat Aliexpess most of the time if not all the time. eBay - new stuff usually good. Than there is Amazon with prime.

Main question would be about insert type you want / need.

You can go with pro stuff but for hobby milling I am not convinced there will be a difference - specially on a small mill.
 
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