Broke My Tap Handle Today:-(

[Susquatch]

Ya I just mean if there is enough meat then its probably is fine.

"Probably" is a good choice of words but no safety net. I work with big stuff (@Brent H 's stuff is bigger), and I see huge machines broken all the time because of sharp corners. It's worse when there is moisture around. Farm equipment designers dont seem to have gone to a decent engineering program as they love sharp corners. Add a wee bit of force (as in torquing a tap) and a micro-crack forms. Moisture gets into the crack, micro corrosion follows the grain structure of the material, and it weakens to crack some more. Add a constant force and it can become stress corrosion.

I seem to regularly break tap wrenches there. I've upgraded to better wrenches but I still get failures and I'm still not happy.

I've wondered about adding a tiny (1/16th or 1/8th) milled out corner relief.

I like @John Conroy 's wrenches, but would prefer to buy if I can find something more reliable. I've often used square drive sockets on a big sliding T-bar socket wrench for the big stuff, and I recently bought a small starrett wrench. But I'll be watching for a report from @YYCHM on the KBC wrenches.

 

[PeterT]

You used to see these (arguably older style?) cylindrical style tap wrenches before they morphed into the plate style we see today. I see them on Ali of dubious quality. They probably would be easier to make in a home shop lathe. I started to do some drawings but couldn't quite get my head around the jaws. By that I mean even though the thicker body looked like it should hold more of the tap shaft (which would be a good thing) the length of flat ground on the tap crown is relatively short by comparison & that's what the 90-deg Vee jaw must mate. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[YotaBota]

I couldn't find any other British Assoc. tap/die sets elsewhere.

Goliathtoolingcanada.com Dan has BA tooling and is good to deal with.

 

[DPittman]

Goliathtoolingcanada.com Dan has BA tooling and is good to deal with.

Thanks for the link and recommendation.

 

[YotaBota]

Don't be shocked by the prices but the tools are good.

 

[buckbrush]

Goliath taps and dies are still made in Great Britain and are top shelf-tools

 

[DPittman]

Goliath taps and dies are still made in Great Britain and are top shelf-tools

I guess that would explain the high prices. I'd still like to own a top quality set of tap and dies someday. I'll probably wait until I'm to old to get much use out of them if I ever do. Hee hee.

 

[historicalarms]

Tapping threads is probably the area of hobby machining where quality taps show their worth in spades. I have 4 tapping sets in my shop, two that were "end of the Ille specials from BB that are only usable for wood or plastic threading ( aluminum in a real pinch), a CT small set up to 1/2 " that I have found to be very good for the cost of it and a large set up to 1" that came from an industrial supply place....supposed to be "very good quality" but in actuality, not any better than the moderately priced CT version.

Now for a story on "the good stuff"....25 yrs ago I got the opportunity to attend a machinist trade show in Edmonton...me, being a brand new hobbyist with a $350 lathe/mill combo at home was walking in the same crowd that used hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment every day...yup I sure fit in with that bunch.

any ways , one of the vendors had a "try our stuff out" display set up that had an industrial tapping apparatus set up. It had a "pantograph type arm system set up with a air drill attached to it with some make of 3/8 tap that i can't remember installed in it. Under the machine was a sheet of 1/2 steel plate that must have had 1000 pilot holes drilled in it. Any body that want to giv'r a try could do so...so, after having a look around to see if anybody recognized me as an imposter first, grabbed the air tool and touched a new hole with it...it had a "usage counter" on it for the tap in the machine & I was #380 or so...the instant I hit the trigger on that die grinder it grabbed and threaded through that 1/2 inch steel in less time than it took me to type the last 5 words, once it was through it automatically reversed and backed out leaving a perfect thread.
My biggest "come away" from that show & that tapping machine is that I will always and forever be an amateur.

 

[PeterT]

I find the Sowa taps to be excellent quality & reasonable price. Which is kind of strange because I find their prices to be on the high side by comparison. You can get many different flavors of their taps but I find the blue ring to be perfectly suitable for hobby purposes. The only thing with Sowa is they are a distributer so you have to go to a Thomas Skinner or DMH or whoever carries the line in your town. Too bad KBC doesn't carry because their shipping model is great. I have been tapping a lot of M3 holes in aluminum so I've tried quite a few brands of that size more for morbid interest. Buying low quality taps is a waste of money IMO. You negate the cost difference in the first part you wreck. Having said that, most home shop tapping issues are related to the fundamentals: tap stability (going in & out perfectly straight), chip loading (cleaning/lubrication), over-driving under power etc. In a controlled (CNC) environment good taps will make guessing thousands of holes.

SOWA - Homepage

 

[Susquatch]

I find the Sowa taps to be excellent quality & reasonable price. Which is kind of strange because I find their prices to be on the high side by comparison. You can get many different flavors of their taps but I find the blue ring to be perfectly suitable for hobby purposes. The only thing with Sowa is they are a distributer so you have to go to a Thomas Skinner or DMH or whoever carries the line in your town. Too bad KBC doesn't carry because their shipping model is great. I have been tapping a lot of M3 holes in aluminum so I've tried quite a few brands of that size more for morbid interest. Buying low quality taps is a waste of money IMO. You negate the cost difference in the first part you wreck. Having said that, most home shop tapping issues are related to the fundamentals: tap stability (going in & out perfectly straight), chip loading (cleaning/lubrication), over-driving under power etc. In a controlled (CNC) environment good taps will make guessing thousands of holes.

SOWA - Homepage

My local Varco industrial Supply carries or can get Sowa products. I'd guess they are all across Canada but don't know that for a fact. I got my GS (Sowa) vice jaws there.

I have several sets of taps & dies too. Most are gathering dust today. Should have bought a really good set right up front when I was 18. Today, I buy taps, drill bits, and dies as I need them from Varco. Someday I'll have a full set of good ones - maybe just in time to throw them in the hole with me.....

Just wondering, what makes the blue line ones worth the extra coin over say Dormer?

 

[PeterT]

The catalog has some application specific information you can peruse:

SOWA - Homepage

Their color coded banding is basically a function of material hardness & then sub-groups. Probably more selection granularity than a weekend warrior would have to delve into, but anyways gives you an idea. Sowa is a middle man so these taps likely correspond to some 'other' brand. I remember seeing a very similar categorization in a brochure I picked up at T.Skinner. Now whether that was Emuge or YG or... I can't recall. There are very likely equivalents to this brand including Dormer, its a competitive business. Some have more extensive or specialized coating systems, but generally they seem to be more costly, hence why I think the Sowa are good value. I tried some Merlin blue? from KBC that tapped very well, but they are through hole style. They don't have (or carry) anywhere near the selection of chip ejecting styles. Same goes for gun guys or model engineers in the teeny sizes, sometimes that limits the brands they can use.

For a while I was favoring uncoated taps for aluminum work, maybe more to just to keep them separate from non-aluminum. But I find the quality & sharpness & geometry type kind of dominates over most everything else so now I pretty much use the same for aluminum & mild steel. I don't have a wide range of big taps but more in smaller sizes so thats the basis of my comparison. If the application is say more stainless or tool steel or 4140... that might be a legitimate need to try a few types more dedicated to that alloy.

 

[Susquatch]

The catalog has some application specific information you can peruse:

SOWA - Homepage

Their color coded banding is basically a function of material hardness & then sub-groups. Probably more selection granularity than a weekend warrior would have to delve into, but anyways gives you an idea. Sowa is a middle man so these taps likely correspond to some 'other' brand. I remember seeing a very similar categorization in a brochure I picked up at T.Skinner. Now whether that was Emuge or YG or... I can't recall. There are very likely equivalents to this brand including Dormer, its a competitive business. Some have more extensive or specialized coating systems, but generally they seem to be more costly, hence why I think the Sowa are good value. I tries some Merlin blue? from KBC that taps very well, but they are through hole style. They don't have (or carry) anywhere near the selection of chip ejecting styles. Same goes for gun guys or model engineers in the teeny sizes, sometimes that limits the brands they can use.

For a while I was favoring uncoated taps for aluminum work, maybe more to just to keep them separate from non-aluminum. But I find the quality & sharpness & geometry type kind of dominates over most everything else so now I pretty much use the same for aluminum & mild steel. I don't have a wide range of big taps but more in smaller sizes so thats the basis of my comparison. If the application is say more stainless or tool steel or 4140... that might be a legitimate need to try a few types more dedicated to that alloy.

Thanks @PeterT. Pretty good overview.

I'm wondering what the real difference is between a really good tap for mild steel and one for harder steel. Betting price is one big difference. Exotic material and coating is probably another. Just have to wonder what makes sense for a regular machinist. Will a tap for hard steel also cut standard steel? What is the price break, ie when does it make sense to jump over the difference hurdle. I can barely afford to buy taps as needed. It would be difficult to justify accumulating different grades of taps too.

 

[John Conroy]

Adam is using OSG Tool Hy-Pro taps on his FlexArm machine in this video and he is tapping at 150rpm and they cut the 4140 like butter. The taps in that Sowa catalog recommend les than 50 rpm. Tapping starts at 48.55 near the end of the vid.

OSG | Taps | End Mills | Drills | Indexable | Composite Tooling | Diamond Coating | Die Products. OSG Cutting Tools for Threading Applications

OSG offers spiral flute, spiral point, straight flute, forming taps, pipe taps and more.

www.osgcanada.com

 

[CalgaryPT]

I’ve been using a KBC #11 for at least the last 30 years. Could be used to kill moose. The dings are from when I removed the fixed anvil (tap was too big to fit properly) and used it to hand tap 400 1” NPT pipe fittings. That job paid for my first milling machine.

400 1" hand taps???

You'd be buff enough to kill the moose with your bare hands after that. No tap wrench needed.

 

[Susquatch]

Adam is using OSG Tool Hy-Pro taps on his FlexArm machine in this video and he is tapping at 150rpm and they cut the 4140 like butter. The taps in that Sowa catalog recommend les than 50 rpm. Tapping starts at 48.55 near the end of the vid.

OSG | Taps | End Mills | Drills | Indexable | Composite Tooling | Diamond Coating | Die Products. OSG Cutting Tools for Threading Applications

OSG offers spiral flute, spiral point, straight flute, forming taps, pipe taps and more.

www.osgcanada.com

For some reason, I couldn't fast forward so watched the hole thing.......

That's what I call tapping! @whydontu would still be skinny if he did his 400 holes that way!

 

[Crankit]

Keep an eye on Marketplace for used tap & die sets and you will find vintage sets with excellent handles, I've collected many Greenfield Tap & Die (and other quality ones) handles over the past few years

 

[PeterT]

Adam is using OSG Tool Hy-Pro taps on his FlexArm machine in this video and he is tapping at 150rpm and they cut the 4140 like butter. The taps in that Sowa catalog recommend les than 50 rpm. Tapping starts at 48.55 near the end of the vid.

Those FlexArms are impressive. I bet they are spendy. But for shops where time is money I can see the benefit. They have such a reach, the head goes to the hole so the part can stay put.

Good comment about the speed. Was this the Sowa chart you were getting that from? They specify feet per minute (FPM). So a 3/8 tap would be ~500 rpm at 50 FPM. I must admit I usually tap way slower than how the calculation works, mostly trying to avoid problems. When I power tap in the mill, higher rpm takes longer for machine to decelerate so the pucker factor increases. The tapping head can self reverse which solves that issue. But it takes me longer to clean the chips that actually tap the hole! LOL

 

[John Conroy]

Yeah I mis-read the FPM as RPM. That makes more sense now.

 

[historicalarms]

My taping speed is more in the 50 minutes per 1/2"...and i can even break taps quite nicely at that speed.

 

[Susquatch]

My taping speed is more in the 50 minutes per 1/2"...and i can even break taps quite nicely at that speed.

Sad, but true! That's kinda my experience too! I don't do enough tapping to justify a tapping head or a tapping machine.

My tapping got an order of magnitude better after I made myself a tap centering holder so I could tap on the drilling axis. But still manual all the way.