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Beginner machinist question??
- Thread starter Gunguy
- Start date
Also plus for the King: Parts availability. Big warehouse in Quebec.
Welcome to the group.
Just a heads up, you best be thinking about tooling cost not lathe cost if you want to do any serious smithing. Tooling will easily be double the lathe cost.
For chambering, you want low speeds not high. Biggest issue you will find with any of the smaller lathes is the spindle bore size. You need at least 1.5" to fit most blanks. You will also want a rear spider.
The reamer guy in BC can get most brands of Reamers for you but almost all the reamer makers in the US will also ship to Canada.
Just a heads up, you best be thinking about tooling cost not lathe cost if you want to do any serious smithing. Tooling will easily be double the lathe cost.
For chambering, you want low speeds not high. Biggest issue you will find with any of the smaller lathes is the spindle bore size. You need at least 1.5" to fit most blanks. You will also want a rear spider.
The reamer guy in BC can get most brands of Reamers for you but almost all the reamer makers in the US will also ship to Canada.
I was hoping for a 1.5 spindle bore but I’ve only found that size in an 8x16 ! I hope I can put a spider on the back of the king lathe but …
I just need to start somewhere hopefully I will find some used tooling over the next !!
That doesn't make sense to me @Gunguy . I wouldn't expect to find a 1.5 bore in anything less than 10" and prolly 30" bed. Most likely, you will want something like a 12or14 x 36or40 or bigger.
You can find lots of used tooling at great prices on line. But it will very difficult to find smithing tooling used. It just isn't out there.
I'm not trying to dissuade you. I think smithing can be a lot of fun and very rewarding. But it will be very disappointing if you start with something you can't use. I'd aim a bit higher if I were you so the trajectory gets you to your goals. It may take longer to realize your goals, but at least you will get there. That's way better than spending less and not making it.
Take your time, start slow, and have fun.
Even my 13x40" Emco only has a 1.4" bore. Just to give you some perspective.
I've also had a 7x12 Warco, a 10x26 Emco V10p, a 13x24 Colchester Student, my 16x60 SM, and if I could only have one lathe, or if I was doing it over, I'd definitly go older/bigger before newer smaller. Further, I paid just about 5k for my 16x60 from my local college and its in just about new condition. (I did spend another 1k wiring it with a vfd, etc) It has a 2.06" bore and is heavy and accurate. If I could only have one lathe it would be my first choice. I realize we are probably getting away from your wants and needs here, but its something to think about.
If you go the route of an older industrial machine, it'll probably be 3 phase, but with VFD's thats a non issue and adds to the functionality of the machine.
I've also had a 7x12 Warco, a 10x26 Emco V10p, a 13x24 Colchester Student, my 16x60 SM, and if I could only have one lathe, or if I was doing it over, I'd definitly go older/bigger before newer smaller. Further, I paid just about 5k for my 16x60 from my local college and its in just about new condition. (I did spend another 1k wiring it with a vfd, etc) It has a 2.06" bore and is heavy and accurate. If I could only have one lathe it would be my first choice. I realize we are probably getting away from your wants and needs here, but its something to think about.
If you go the route of an older industrial machine, it'll probably be 3 phase, but with VFD's thats a non issue and adds to the functionality of the machine.
Mapleridge
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
@Gunguy, I was in your shoes - well a long time ago. My gunsmith mentor said 36" on the bed is minimum, so I went with a 12X37. It was absolutely the right choice. I does have a large, bore, but I never hand a barrel through the headstock anyway, so that is immaterial. For crowning and threading the ends of barrels, you just cannot beat a 36 inch bed.
There's always a trade-off: cost, real estate in the shop, rigidity, etc. At 750 lbs, it is the lightest lathe that I'd work on a barrel, especially to ream a chamber. [I'm in the 'bore first, ream later' school of chambering a barrel BTW].
Cost can be helped by buying a quality used lathe. The most popular gunsmith size these days seems to be 14X40, so the 10X36 and 12X36 lathes can be had for less money. One of my friends has done great work on a South Bend 9A.
You really need both 3 and 4 jaw chucks, steady rest, and follow rest. The rest of the tooling can be acquired as needed.
There's always a trade-off: cost, real estate in the shop, rigidity, etc. At 750 lbs, it is the lightest lathe that I'd work on a barrel, especially to ream a chamber. [I'm in the 'bore first, ream later' school of chambering a barrel BTW].
Cost can be helped by buying a quality used lathe. The most popular gunsmith size these days seems to be 14X40, so the 10X36 and 12X36 lathes can be had for less money. One of my friends has done great work on a South Bend 9A.
You really need both 3 and 4 jaw chucks, steady rest, and follow rest. The rest of the tooling can be acquired as needed.
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Welcome to the group. Some good advise already, it boils down to space for machines and money. A small bore isn't a disadvantage but then you need more bed length. Either machine will get you started to learn machining on, you can always upgrade as your skills improve.
At the risk of beating the horse, and as anyone who has been intimately involved in almost any profession will know, there are factions that passionately defend their chosen approach to things.
And even with smithing there are various levels of precision that smith's attempt to achieve and more than one way to skin the cat. Ya gotta know your goals, ya gotta know your competitors, you gotta know your friends, and you gotta know your options.
As someone on this forum once said to me, it is also important to avoid setting expectations unreasonably high for others new to our "hobby".
All this is just to set the stage for me to say that I am VERY FIRMLY in the camp of those who advocate chambering through the headstock. But I am a precision Smith and I used to compete in Benchrest (the one hole clan). I'm too old and shaky to compete now. But my expectations and my goals are still at the outer edge of what most people think is even reasonable. Even so, there are still a few of my Clan who are competitive chambering in the steady rest. Although their numbers are dwindling quickly, they have my complete respect and admiration for what they do.
For the world of custom smithing, which is a huge leap above factory, I would be happy doing it either way. But to be honest with you, why limit your options when you can have it both ways at relatively low or no extra cost?
I think your plan to assess your needs and set goals before buying is the only way to go. Nobody likes surprises when the final price tag has 4 or 5 digits.
One last suggestion and a caution. The internet and YouTube are full of videos and how-to's on this subject. A select few are excellent - but the vast majority are just plain horrible. In fact, many are just blatant ads masquerading as experts appealing to the gullible to drum up business. Try to be critical with an open mind as you explore what is out there.
There are also a few books out there written by the best of the best in many smithing specialties. They are well worth buying and reading too. I can PM you with a few benchrest recommendations if you want, but I can't really help with Palma or F-Class or etc etc.
Seems there are quite a few Mapleridge areas out there. Which province?
If you're in the lower mainland MapleRidge (my old stomping grounds) here is a 1340 in Victoria. It sounds like it will need a tune up but should future proof you. Do you have the room and power for this size of machine?
www.usedvictoria.com
I believe it to be a Taiwanese machine, not top of the line but not on the bottom either.
Lathe (Brand-Advance) Model -TY1340GHE
We are upgrading our lathe. It can be seen running until our new one arrives. Does not include tooling. The bed is in good condition, however, it will occasionally pop out of gear.
www.usedvictoria.com