Tool Weighing and accuracy

[Former Member]

Balance beam, yes works well provided you have an operator that uses proper procedure for measuring.

The second is the beam balances because of inertia average and mitigate minor variations, electronics by their nature don't and depend on the sample rate. FYI same applies for voltage meters, love digital but for certain tests a analog meter just does better for a low cost.

Civil Engineering 2nd year...stress strain gauges Wheatstone Bridges, theory, application, installation and calibration.

This again comes down to what you are trying to achieve along with the perceived accuracy of what you are doing. As long as the device or method I use exceeds the precision needed marginally it doesn't matter. Could rant on here about precision and accuracy

As to your wifes variation in weight over the course of a day (or day, et alone week) it clearly shows you don't understand the true reason, it is not the scale, it is truly her changing. The reason, how water is retained, before or after bowel movements among a lot of other factors, it not uncommon to see 1-3lb variations which is way they recommend weighing yourself less often if you are managing your wt. I can see her frustration, a better answer is yes thats ok, what is the trend.....

As an example of fluid loss when I was competing in fencing in my earlier years at high level (world cup level), My wt in the morning was 135lbs (tall, lean, mean almost 0 body fat) end of day no washroom trips, 1 to 1.5l of sportdrink, weight 125lbs, this was simply fluid loss through sweat. Typically I lost 8-12lbs during a day during an event, it took lots effort to bring hydration back up to par if it was a 2 day event.

 

[Susquatch]

Balance beam, yes works well provided you have an operator that uses proper procedure for measuring.

The second is the beam balances because of inertia average and mitigate minor variations, electronics by their nature don't and depend on the sample rate. FYI same applies for voltage meters, love digital but for certain tests a analog meter just does better for a low cost.

Civil Engineering 2nd year...stress strain gauges Wheatstone Bridges, theory, application, installation and calibration.

This again comes down to what you are trying to achieve along with the perceived accuracy of what you are doing. As long as the device or method I use exceeds the precision needed marginally it doesn't matter. Could rant on here about precision and accuracy

As to your wifes variation in weight over the course of a day (or day, et alone week) it clearly shows you don't understand the true reason, it is not the scale, it is truly her changing. The reason, how water is retained, before or after bowel movements among a lot of other factors, it not uncommon to see 1-3lb variations which is way they recommend weighing yourself less often if you are managing your wt. I can see her frustration, a better answer is yes thats ok, what is the trend.....

As an example of fluid loss when I was competing in fencing in my earlier years at high level (world cup level), My wt in the morning was 135lbs (tall, lean, mean almost 0 body fat) end of day no washroom trips, 1 to 1.5l of sportdrink, weight 125lbs, this was simply fluid loss through sweat. Typically I lost 8-12lbs during a day during an event, it took lots effort to bring hydration back up to par if it was a 2 day event.

Your sense of humour is so dry it's hard to tell if you disagree or are yanking on my chain or both! I'll assume both.

Agree totally on all your points.

But to clarify, her weight seems to change just getting on and off and on and off right away. For some silly reason, she chooses to believe the highest number!

A balance beam doesn't do that because it doesn't depend on all that silly digitization stuff.

Of course, you are right about whether or not it matters. I recall our discussion about practical precision and agree on those points too.

And yes, my own weight changes +/- 5 pounds (10 pound spread) on a balance beam regularly depending on my fluid and waste disposal levels and work output. Picking rocks on a hot humid summer day converts a lot of body mass energy into work and body fluids into sweat! I might go +/- 10 pounds on those days!

None of that reduces my aversion to digital though....

 

[thestelster]

This is what I use for all critical requirements. It's pricey, but I have to install rifle scopes that run into the thousands of dollars and I need to know that I've installed them at manufacturers specs. And it comes with the test certificate and the protocol used in the testing. (Whether that really means anything or not, I don't know, but peace of mind. And made in Germany). They come in variable torque models as well as fixed torque.

 

[Susquatch]

This is what I use for all critical requirements. It's pricey, but I have to install rifle scopes that run into the thousands of dollars and I need to know that I've installed them at manufacturers specs. And it comes with the test certificate and the protocol used in the testing. (Whether that really means anything or not, I don't know, but peace of mind. And made in Germany). They come in variable torque models as well as fixed torque.

Yup those are the exact Wiha screw drivers that I use too!

I love them!

 

[Former Member]

@Susquatch

Hmmm,......

DRO's vs dials.......

 

[Dabbler]

I've tried to tell her it's just the scales

I thought I'd bring up the topic that is near and dear to about 10% of the folks here. Reloading. I converted over to digital scales along with my friends about 10 years ago. Some of them are very sophisticated in mechanics, electronics and design.

Not one of them has calibrated or re-calibrated their reloading scales, believing the 1% 0R 3% claims. I spent $$$ buying calibration weights, and determined that the 1% claim is easily violated by less than a 1% variance in line voltage. In fact over time my scale has wandered by over 7% PP.

Now I calibrate before, during, and after use.

 

[Susquatch]

@Susquatch

Hmmm,......

DRO's vs dials.......

You have a very evil side you know.........

Yes, I have been poisoned by those darn digital readouts.

That's also why I am on a mission to understand how they work. It's just plain hard to accept. Goes against my grain. About their only fault is the false sense of security they provide. How accurate/precise they are over the entire range remains to be seen. It's also amazing that they can be calibrated and corrected.

Someday I'll get some inside scoop on how they work and I'll be back. Prolly with my tail between my legs......

@Dabbler - I have a box of electronic reloading scales that are nothing more or less than total junk. I found that the calibration drifts during use even if they are warmed up the day before. I even bought a lab grade scale with 0.01 grain increments that drifts or jumps around more than a tenth (0.1 gr). My old Redding balance beam is consistently within 3 tenths (reading between lines) for any given charge and doesn't require calibration other than when you first start.

 

[Dabbler]

I have a box of electronic reloading scales that are nothing more or less than total junk.

They are sold as more accurate, but are far less. I'm looking for a quality lab grade balance beam to replace my digital...

 

[YYCHM]

I'm still using a balance beam scale

 

[Chicken lights]

I thought I'd bring up the topic that is near and dear to about 10% of the folks here. Reloading. I converted over to digital scales along with my friends about 10 years ago. Some of them are very sophisticated in mechanics, electronics and design.

Not one of them has calibrated or re-calibrated their reloading scales, believing the 1% 0R 3% claims. I spent $$$ buying calibration weights, and determined that the 1% claim is easily violated by less than a 1% variance in line voltage. In fact over time my scale has wandered by over 7% PP.

Now I calibrate before, during, and after use.

Do you have a recommendation for a loading machine? Beginner friendly is important

 

[Susquatch]

Re a reloading press. It depends. What are you after? Quality, Volume, Precision big, small? Expensive, low cost?

I am a big fan of Redding Single Stage Presses - the Boss for regular cartridges up to 30-06 or the Ultra Mag for the Magnums. I also like their dies. Even the standard 3 die set will produce reloads that will shoot exceptionally well. If you want to go beyond that you can get competition bushing dies and they will fit the standard presses.

Before my Redding, I had an RCBS Rock Chucker. It was a great press too but I didn't like picking spent primers up off the floor. The Redding collects them in a tube. I'd bet that RCBS does that now too.

I feel strongly that a single stage press builds better habits and reloading is not a racing match.

 

[Susquatch]

This is what I use for all critical requirements. It's pricey, but I have to install rifle scopes that run into the thousands of dollars and I need to know that I've installed them at manufacturers specs. And it comes with the test certificate and the protocol used in the testing. (Whether that really means anything or not, I don't know, but peace of mind. And made in Germany). They come in variable torque models as well as fixed torque.

I see the hex adapter installed in your driver. Did you get any WiHa dedicated driver tips for it? I got just the main ones I need for rings and bases. If I was filthy rich I'd buy the whole set of Imperial, Metric, & Torx bits though. They are awesome too and a nice compliment to the wiha torque driver. Both of my drivers are the adjustable ones. I just couldn't justify the cost of a dozen different fixed torque drivers.

 

[Chicken lights]

Re a reloading press. It depends. What are you after? Quality, Volume, Precision big, small? Expensive, low cost?

I am a big fan of Redding Single Stage Presses - the Boss for regular cartridges up to 30-06 or the Ultra Mag for the Magnums. I also like their dies

I feel strongly that a single stage press builds better habits and reloading is not a racing match.

Why ya gotta ask so many questions?
For right now, .223 down range to put holes in paper at 25-100 yards is the goal. We are far from being able to blame the boolit for not going where we want it. I’d probably lump 9mm or .45 in that same category, for now.

Once I move into .308 I’d probably be looking for more precision, but that could be awhile.

As far as cost, what little I’ve learned is it’s not just the press it’s all the other tools that go along with reloading, at the start, for cost. It’s an initial investment to be able to do hand loads cheaper than factory, down the road. But I could be wrong, it’s been known to happen

 

[DPittman]

I'm still using a balance beam scale

Well I think they have almost always been accurate but digital scales sure are convenient and now days can be had for very cheap.

 

[YYCHM]

Well I think they have almost always been accurate but digital scales sure are convenient and now days can be had for very cheap.

What do you consider cheap to be? I haven't seen any digital powder throwers that I would consider cheap. The less expensive ones appear to be prone to electrical interference from lights etc.

 

[DPittman]

What do you consider cheap to be? I haven't seen any digital powder throwers that I would consider cheap. The less expensive ones appear to be prone to electrical interference from lights etc.

Yes I guess "cheap" is a relative term. And I'm sure a fellow somewhat gets what he pays for, but I figure under $50 is pretty cheap.

 

[YYCHM]

Yes I guess "cheap" is a relative term. And I'm sure a fellow somewhat gets what he pays for, but I figure under $50 is pretty cheap.

Are you talking digital scale or digital powder thrower? Ya, I have a digital scale for checking my balance beam scale. Digital powder throwers are in the hundreds.

 

[DPittman]

Are you talking digital scale or digital powder thrower? Ya, I have a digital scale for checking my balance beam scale. Digital powder throwers are in the hundreds.

I'm talking scales.

 

[Dabbler]

I use a very old school 1940s C press. but my dies and my scale are RCBS. Even though it needs 'minding the scale performs well for me for fast loading. For competition I'm looking for something more accurate.

 

[Susquatch]

Why ya gotta ask so many questions?
For right now, .223 down range to put holes in paper at 25-100 yards is the goal. We are far from being able to blame the boolit for not going where we want it. I’d probably lump 9mm or .45 in that same category, for now.

Once I move into .308 I’d probably be looking for more precision, but that could be awhile.

As far as cost, what little I’ve learned is it’s not just the press it’s all the other tools that go along with reloading, at the start, for cost. It’s an initial investment to be able to do hand loads cheaper than factory, down the road. But I could be wrong, it’s been known to happen

I assumed that. An RCBS Rockchucker and an associated RCBS 3 die set or a Redding Boss and Redding 3 die set will do all you need for now and well into the future. If the RCBS has the primer drop in the ram, buy whichever one you like. If not, then I'd go with the Redding system.

You will need a few more things too. But those will get you going.

I'm not saying other options won't work. Just those are the ones I like and I have no concerns recommending them.