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Vintage Safe Restoration

C

Cap'n Kelly

Member
I am currently restoring a very old Gary Safe Company safe. I have posted a request for assistance in Classifieds > Request a part, job, or quote from members are and have had many views and replies. Just posting now as a new member to allow easier access for updates. Also a big shout out to the Administrator Janger for all of his help to date!
 
I have moved this safe with me across 2 countries and 8 or 9 residences over the past 40 something years. There were a few failed attempts to repair it when I was growing up in Colorado.
 
The background I know is as follows. The safe was found by my older brother in shallow water of a lake about an hour from our home. He was just a young teenager at the time and had been fishing with my father. He brought the safe home and it sat in our family garage until I was old enough to become interested. I should mention that the safe had already been cleaned of any contents when it was found in the late 1960's. Some obvious attempts to open the safe lid were evident but whoever deposited it in the lake eventually gave up and used a torch to cut through the back of the vault portion and removed whatever was in it. When I saw it in the garage my curiosity got the better of me and I began to study the dial. None of my older siblings had even tried to open it up. Of course guessing the combination was a no starter. So I used a flashlight to peer inside where the torch had cut a small hole which would have been big enough to shake out any coins. I immediately saw the back cover and 3 screws so grabbed a screwdriver and removed the back panel to expose the inner workings from behind. Now I could see the working mechanism bit better and used the screwdriver to line up the tumblers with the gate, presto change turn the dial and off came the lid! My family was impressed and so I inherited the heavy scrap. Being a kid I immediately filled the safe with tennis balls and closed it up. I had of course determined the combination while the safe lid was off. My memory is a bit fuzzy here but I think that I forgot the combination over time. So back to the screwdriver to remove the back panel. Now with the tennis balls and back cover obstructing any clear vision I was in for trouble! I don't know if panic set in but I made the mistake to punch out the dial to gain a better view to manipulate the tumblers. Well that worked and I got the safe open but wrecked the drive cam in the process (mistake #1). Then I decided I could attach the spindle back to the drive cam by boring a small hole through the cam and using a set screw to hold them together (mistake #2). Then I decided to drill and tap the spindle end to use a bolt to hold the cam onto the spindle (mistake #3).Then I asked a friend’s father to braze the cam to the spindle (mistake #4).Eventually I gave up on the repair to these components but still had my friend’s father weld a piece of very heavy steel channel onto the back of the safe vault to cover the hole that had been torched in it (only real success out of everything!). I immigrated to many years later to Canada and brought the safe with me thinking one day I would get it fixed properly. Well 35 years after immigrating I am trying to get this done and am elated to have found this group!
Recently I have been doing deep research in the safe itself but this has proved challenging as well. Although I have seen similar lids from the same company (Gary Safe Co.), the other lids have move advanced components and relockers. Also the tags are different. I believe everything I have seen online to date are more recent models than mine. I have some feelers out to the safe industry folks to see if I can get something more definitive but for now stand by a date between 1948 and 1951 as I can see a move from Los Angeles District 13 to Los Angeles District 21. The number plate shows this as (13). I have also reached out to Underwriters Laboratories but they were not of any help as the unit is so old.
 
Hi Kelly

Thanks for posting the additional photos. Now it makes sense.

Tom Kitta is right - there's at least a day's work here.

How is the keyed shaft attached to the dial? Making a new shaft should be no problem but if the original shaft can not be removed from the dial it could be bored and a replacement stub shaft press fit / pinned / loctited (680) in place.

The cam is another issue. My guess that the 11 holes are to allow for different combinations to be set. If you can live with fewer combinations then the hole placement and number of holes is not critical. You don't necessarily need the three square keyways in the cam. You could drill the new shaft/cam combo at the thread pitch line and use a hardened pull dowel as a key.

My question is...
Do you want to restore the lock mechanism as close to original as possible or do you just want the lock to work reliably?
 
I am fascinated by this whole item history, now if you could please, add pictures of your own with some measuring device for scale.
 
From the pictures it looks like most of the original parts could be salvaged.
Unless it is some oddball thread the spindle thread could be restored.
The disk could be bored out and a new threaded part silver soldered in. That is a horrendous brazing job!
 
Yes one not so work intensive idea is to take the old cam, bore it out and then either,
1) set it up for larger spindle
2) press into it / solder in the new spindle housing

or as John above said, just bore out and simply solder in new spindle - no dismantling possible but quicker.

The safe itself could be one of the very first models made by the company - hence a bit simpler mechanism and little info on it.
 
@Cap'n Kelly sorry for the delay in catching up on this. I have 3 safes currently under restoration. An 1880s safe with nice scrollwork on it, a 1940s army safe repainted for a dentist's office, and a large vault. Are you in Calgary?

I've done some work on lockworks, and have been machining for 40 years, so I might be able to help you out a bit. I'm really very (very) busy right now, but I can spare a couple hours to figure what needs to be done. often fixes on lockworks are simpler than they seem.

pm sent.
 
eotrfish said:
Hi Kelly

Thanks for posting the additional photos. Now it makes sense.

Tom Kitta is right - there's at least a day's work here.

How is the keyed shaft attached to the dial? Making a new shaft should be no problem but if the original shaft can not be removed from the dial it could be bored and a replacement stub shaft press fit / pinned / loctited (680) in place.

The cam is another issue. My guess that the 11 holes are to allow for different combinations to be set. If you can live with fewer combinations then the hole placement and number of holes is not critical. You don't necessarily need the three square keyways in the cam. You could drill the new shaft/cam combo at the thread pitch line and use a hardened pull dowel as a key.

My question is...
Do you want to restore the lock mechanism as close to original as possible or do you just want the lock to work reliably?
Click to expand...

Dabbler said:
@Cap'n Kelly sorry for the delay in catching up on this. I have 3 safes currently under restoration. An 1880s safe with nice scrollwork on it, a 1940s army safe repainted for a dentist's office, and a large vault. Are you in Calgary?

I've done some work on lockworks, and have been machining for 40 years, so I might be able to help you out a bit. I'm really very (very) busy right now, but I can spare a couple hours to figure what needs to be done. often fixes on lockworks are simpler than they seem.

pm sent.
Click to expand...

I was just examining the dial to spindle connection again. It might be pressed in and/or even a factory swage as I notice a perfect line halfway on the collar? However I also noticed a pin going in at an angle between the two pieces right under the dial that might either be the original attachment or maybe another childhood repair? I do remember the dial itself was bent by the person(s) who took the safe and that I straightened it out. I don't remember if I inserted a pin at that point but if I did the job looks surprisingly good for an 8 or 9 year old boy! I had also thought the solution would be to cut off the spindle and bore out the collar and then press/pin the new spindle in place. As for the cam, moving the drive screw is another way to set a new combination. I just removed that screw and it could be used again in any of the positions. I would of course prefer drill/tap holes to match the existing piece to keep it as factory but that part seems the easiest to me. The 3 keyways were likely a method for ease of customer hand changing the combination from time to time and gives more flexibility for ease of repositioning during reassembly (newer safes have 4 keyways). There are 3 other dials to hand change this as well and I have done this several times over the years and again recently. All components other than drive cam and spindle and key are in in perfect working condition so I would prefer to restore as close as possible to original.

I am in Calgary and could bring over the safe lid and even the vault anytime. After 40+ years I am in no hurry to finish this:-) I realize that social distancing is still in place but am okay with a group meet if this would be helpful in determining the best solution. More detailed pictures forthcoming.
 
[mention]Tom Kitta [/mention] I was suggesting that a new “hub” be made for the disk and soldered in. The spindle would thread into that just as before.
This all depends on whether the threads on the spindle can be restored.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
@Cap'n Kelly Was the damaged cam including threaded boss with keyways a single piece of brass originally? Is the spindle in serviceable condition?
 
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Bofobo said:
I am fascinated by this whole item history, now if you could please, add pictures of your own with some measuring device for scale.
Click to expand...
Some new pics from just now as requested. If anyone could comment on the foundry stamps this might be helpful in my research as well.
 

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Johnwa said:
[mention]Tom Kitta [/mention] I was suggesting that a new “hub” be made for the disk and soldered in. The spindle would thread into that just as before.
This all depends on whether the threads on the spindle can be restored.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
This may be a suitable solution, likely dependent on an up-close visual inspection. Please review the latest photos. and thank you
 
I think I'm counting 24 TPI on the spindle. If a 3/8" X 24 TPI bolt threads into the cams that might be half the battle right there, as, at least it's a common thread and taps are available. Does the spindle have to be hollow?

Something to note is that the keyways in the cam boss don't appear to be timed with any of the peripheral features such as the threaded holes or 12 o'clock notch. At least that's what I'm seeing from the images.
 
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YYCHobbyMachinist said:
I think I'm counting 24 TPI on the spindle. If a 3/8" X 24 TPI bolt threads into the cams that might be half the battle right there, as, at least it's a common thread and taps are available. Does the spindle have to be hollow?

Something to note is that the keyways in the cam boss aren't timed with any of the peripheral features such as the threaded holes or 12 o'clock notch. At least that's what I'm seeing from the images.
Click to expand...

The spindle doesn't need to be hollow, the visible top portion was my very young attempt to reattach the pieces. Also, the keyways only need 120 degree separation and the location to the rest of the cam do not matter.
 
Cap'n Kelly said:
The spindle doesn't need to be hollow, the visible top portion was my very young attempt to reattach the pieces. Also, the keyways only need 120 degree separation and the location to the rest of the cam do not matter.
Click to expand...

That would certainly simplify things. Why is that assembly threaded and keyed and not just keyed? Are all the cams threaded?
 
The purpose of the threads is to not allow the dial/spindle assembly to simply fall out if you pull the dial towards yourself while opening the lid.
 
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