Variable speed press drill

[Marc Moreau]

I am looking again for a variable speed press drill but I am scare about the electronic my Nova Voyager dvr did not work to long 2 or 3 year not to good service.
At my place I leave in residentiel place but I have no problem with neighbour's every body around are happy to see me. when they need me I'm there.
for the electricity is single phase 120 / 220 volts.
Leblond LTD have one LDP-25VS but I think that need 3 phase ? But is it good ?
Palmgren's have nice one with gear box I like that but I don't know if they have single phase ? and the price is around $ 8,318.00 US that's a lot of money.
What I don't like about the belt drive you lost a lot's time to switch the belt . They are new model with a clutch that's nice but to get faster RPM you have to switch belt again but less time.
Any tip's or infos is very welcome. 1/8 drill 2500 RPM ? for steel 3/8 rpm for steel is 1000 and 1/2 drill for steel is 250
Most time I do all at 250 but with small drill on aluminium this is not good. Thank You

 

[Janger]

What is wrong with your Nova Voyager? - it seems like a nice tool from the description: ?https://www.kmstools.com/catalog/pr...king-industrial-nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/

What about fixing your Nova Voyager? Replace the motor with a 3 phase motor. Then add a variable frequency drive (VFD) to control the motor speed. Perhaps $500? A good VFD should last a long time. Like a Teco brand one.

 

[Janger]

Maybe you already have a 3 phase motor and the only problem is the electronics?

 

[YYCHM]

What is wrong with your Nova Voyager? - it seems like a nice tool from the description: ?https://www.kmstools.com/catalog/pr...king-industrial-nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/

What about fixing your Nova Voyager? Replace the motor with a 3 phase motor. Then add a variable frequency drive (VFD) to control the motor speed. Perhaps $500? A good VFD should last a long time. Like a Teco brand one.

Nova Voyager DVR drill press

Well after only 3 year's my press drill is dead. message on the screen is Low Voltage the man who phone me say it could be one of the 2 board one is $ 200.00 the other is $ 800.00 . Do you have an idea for a good variable speed press drill at good price ? I saw the Powermatic an the WEN...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[Janger]

Oh I see we kinda already had this discussion. Marc I still think you could figure out if your motor is a 3 phase motor and I suspect it would be. and if so you could buy a new VFD and probably fix your drill press. Let me see if I can find some options.

 

[Janger]

Something like this:
https://dealerselectric.com/CFW300A06P0S1NB20.asp

 

[PeterT]

I wonder if you could get a used drill press with decent iron & replace the motor with one of those no-programing type VFD motor /controller packages like the belt grinders use (except smaller wattage).
Coincidentally I was just poking around Kijiji. Bench style & floor style for couple hundred. The floor model has kaput electric motor. Some of the new drill presses don't impress me at all & the prices ar egetting crazy high.

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Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.

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[Marc Moreau]

What is wrong with your Nova Voyager? - it seems like a nice tool from the description: ?https://www.kmstools.com/catalog/pr...king-industrial-nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/

What about fixing your Nova Voyager? Replace the motor with a 3 phase motor. Then add a variable frequency drive (VFD) to control the motor speed. Perhaps $500? A good VFD should last a long time. Like a Teco brand one.

Maybe you already have a 3 phase motor and the only problem is the electronics?

Well I was so mad I send it to scrap yard.

 

[Janger]

I like the idea of finding a used one with good bones and adding a vfd. New ones are sooo expensive!

 

[Susquatch]

What I don't like about the belt drive you lost a lot's time to switch the belt . They are new model with a clutch that's nice but to get faster RPM you have to switch belt again but less time.

Marc, I can't say for certain since I do not know enough of your details.

What I can say is that putting a VFD and 3 phase motor on my mill has meant that I no longer have to move the belt to change speeds. I would expect the results to be similar on a drill press.

 

[Marc Moreau]

I look many youtube on VFD and I like that . You said 3 phase motor ? let's go back 3 phase motor 220 volts ? and the VFR 120 volts ? I just don't want blow someting. If the wire are good identify this will be nice. They talk about 2 pole motor and 4 pole motor they say 2 pole if you want to go very low you won't have torque the 4 pole usally 1700 RPM if you over drive it's no problem. What scare me is to order wrong part's what I need is a good mach . Motor 3 phase ? how many HP ? and wich contronller to buy ? the controller 120 volt ? or 220 volt single phase ? Thank you That will be nice to get lathe and milling on VFD what was nice they pass to forward to reverse with no damage.

 

[Susquatch]

Ideally, you would use a VFD that has a 220Volt single phase input, and a 220V three phase output. This would be the best scenario.

This would also mean that you would need to have a 3 phase 220V Motor. To get maximum speed adjustment, the motor should be Vfd rated. It isn't required, but you get much more speed range, smoother startup and less problems with a VFD Rated motor.

 

[Marc Moreau]

Good now that's help me I will look for those part's that will be more affordable compare to $ 10,000.00 US or Canadian . Thank You very much

 

[PeterT]

Ideally, you would use a VFD that has a 220Volt single phase input, and a 220V three phase output. This would be the best scenario.

This would also mean that you would need to have a 3 phase 220V Motor. To get maximum speed adjustment, the motor should be Vfd rated. It isn't required, but you get much more speed range, smoother startup and less problems with a VFD Rated motor.

Aren't most drill presses in the 1/3 to 1/2 HP range? I would think something like this would be plenty of power. VFD unit is 110V-AC-1P input, 230V 3P output. Now the frame size & shaft size vs sheave size & all those other conversion details I'm not sure of. Motor + VFD is north of 800$CAD + wiring etc. But it sure would be nice to just turn the dial.

KBAC-24D Variable Frequency Drive

KBAC-24D Variable Frequency Drive (VFD). The KBAC -24D is recommended for 1.0 hp - 3 phase motors.

nexusgrinders.ca

1 Hp -3 Phase Motor 1800 RPM

1 hp -3 phase Motor 1800 RPM. Premium efficiency AC induction motor, general purpose and inverter duty, 1hp, 3-phase, 208-230/460 VAC, 1800rpm, TEFC, 56C/HC frame, rolled steel, rigid base with C-face mount.

nexusgrinders.ca

1 Hp - 3 Phase Motor

1 hp - 3 phase Motor. Premium efficiency AC induction motor, general purpose and inverter duty, 1hp, 3-phase, 208-230/460 VAC, 3600rpm, TEFC, 56C/HC frame, rolled steel, rigid base with C-face mount.

nexusgrinders.ca

 

[Marc Moreau]

When I go in the garage tomorrow I will look what hp is my motor I have this press drill probably more than 30 year never change nothing on it except a key less chuck.
May be I don't need 220 volt input , I don't use usally bigger drill than 3/4 but sometime holesaw ? and most time I use this on aluminium. So the combine could be 120 volt single phase to a motor 1 hp tree phase 220 volt ?

 

[PeterT]

Just for reference, mine is a 90's Taiwan bench model, 5/8" chuck, 1/3 HP, 215-3250 rpm range. It has 2 belts, 3 sheave clusters to get that RPM range. Other models only 1 belt, 2 sheave clusters so that would probably dictate which motor to get (1800 vs 3600 rpm) of the 1HP versions for example. I think the same VFD will drive either? It would probably also be worth looking at the torque curve to see what it does at lower rpm. The belts are a pain but the the boring single phase fixed rpm is motor happy in its power band. I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff, forum has VFD/motor experts.

Some of the conversions I saw the mounting was straightforward but the sheave matching to motor shaft may need some machining or part sourcing depending on the sizes involved.

 

[Susquatch]

Regardless of what you usually do with it Marc, I would still try to retain the full usability of the drill press as it was originally designed. You never know what you will want to drill in the future.

I was only suggesting my own preferred direction earlier. The devil is in the details. You need to do the detailed assessment to determine what size of motor is required, what the motor speed should be, what mounting is required, what the main drive pulley shaft size is, and if you want 220 or 110 input power. There are lots of ways to do this.

@PeterT - your press is beautiful for its age!

 

[Mcgyver]

What I don't like about the belt drive you lost a lot's time to switch the belt .

A common approach to this PITA is to get the right belt tension so it does not slip, but you can change the belt position by hand without grabing for tools. My Buffalo DP for example is not intended to have the belt loosened to change it, it would be far too big a job...but its seconds to change by hand

1/8 drill 2500 RPM ? for steel 3/8 rpm for steel is 1000 and 1/2 drill for steel is 250
Most time I do all at 250 but with small drill on aluminium this is not good. Thank You

A few will argue this, but all of engineering is stacked against them . An electronic speed controller (unless a servo with feedback) makes a poor speed controller for a machine tool as with a machine tool, you usually (if not always) want torque to increase as the speed goes down. HP is the product of speed and torque. For example, if you have 1/2 hp at 2500, and you use a vector VFD (constant torque) you will have 1/20 of a HP at 250 RPM. Good luck drilling a 1/2" hole with 1/20th HP. With a mechanical transmission (ignoring friction loses) torque would go up as speed went down meaning you'd still have 1/2HP @ 250rpm.

If someone says a VFD works for them for speed reduction, I don't doubt it, but what is really being said is they find the reduced HP at low speeds still adequate for the work they do. Maybe its light work or maybe they aren't reducing the speed very much. Its all good but it doesn't change the physics: that performance is sub optimal as you lose HP as the speed is reduced or that with a 10:1 reduction the lack of HP will be dramatic to the point of not really being unusable for drilling that 1/2" (or pretty much any) hole.

 

[DPittman]

A common approach to this PITA is to get the right belt tension so it does not slip, but you can change the belt position by hand without grabing for tools. My Buffalo DP for example is not intended to have the belt loosened to change it, it would be far too big a job...but its seconds to change by hand



A few will argue this, but all of engineering is stacked against them . An electronic speed controller (unless a servo with feedback) makes a poor speed controller for a machine tool as with a machine tool, you usually (if not always) want torque to increase as the speed goes down. HP is the product of speed and torque. For example, if you have 1/2 hp at 2500, and you use a vector VFD (constant torque) you will have 1/20 of a HP at 250 RPM. Good luck drilling a 1/2" hole with 1/20th HP. With a mechanical transmission (ignoring friction loses) torque would go up as speed went down meaning you'd still have 1/2HP @ 250rpm.

If someone says a VFD works for them for speed reduction, I don't doubt it, but what is really being said is they find the reduced HP at low speeds still adequate for the work they do. Maybe its light work or maybe they aren't reducing the speed very much. Its all good but it doesn't change the physics: that performance is sub optimal as you lose HP as the speed is reduced or that with a 10:1 reduction the lack of HP will be dramatic to the point of not really being unusable for drilling that 1/2" (or pretty much any) hole.

Yes I tried to wrap my head around this concept and how it would affect my vfd conversion of both my milling machine and drill press. I ended up not removing any pulley or belt combinations that originally came with the machine and kept the ability to do the mechanical speed changes along with the vfd. I really like that combo and I rarely change belt positions. As you stated, the reduced hp at low speeds (with just VFD) has been adequate so far, but when it does become a problem, I'll do a belt change too.

 

[Marc Moreau]

On my motor Model RM-410 amp 12 volt 115-120 HZ 60 RPM 1720 PH 60 class A NO 5487 Date 1993 they don't talk about HP ??? maybe I could go for the setup you told me and keep my belt found the write one and look what will be my rate ? I try to found a digital tach but did not find it ? that will help but like you say if I go low RPM maybe the torque won't be there ?