Machine Threading - Power vs Taps/Dies

[dave_lawson@]

Looking at options for a lathe (only need 8x24 and there are lots out there) but few of the lower cost ones have a proper threading indicator. I've done threading on very small lathes (Taig) and made a tailstock die holder which allowed me to manually thread short sections quite easily. I am dubious about my need to thread long items (say...over 3/4" long) and this makes me imagine that having a threading set up becomes less critical.

Question to the group: am I missing something critical in my thinking here, or is it just "horses for courses"?
Follow-On: I've seen separate, presumably 'add on' threading indicators. Viable option?

(Background: Crop of lathes without threading indicator are all under $2k new. Lathes WITH indicator are well above $3K. Would prefer to invest the difference in a more capable mill. Also, prefer newer style lathe as my space is limited and the older models typically have a large open pully system for driving and I don't really want to give up that much space)

 

[DavidR8]

Looking at options for a lathe (only need 8x24 and there are lots out there) but few of the lower cost ones have a proper threading indicator. I've done threading on very small lathes (Taig) and made a tailstock die holder which allowed me to manually thread short sections quite easily. I am dubious about my need to thread long items (say...over 3/4" long) and this makes me imagine that having a threading set up becomes less critical.

Question to the group: am I missing something critical in my thinking here, or is it just "horses for courses"?
Follow-On: I've seen separate, presumably 'add on' threading indicators. Viable option?

(Background: Crop of lathes without threading indicator are all under $2k new. Lathes WITH indicator are well above $3K. Would prefer to invest the difference in a more capable mill. Also, prefer newer style lathe as my space is limited and the older models typically have a large open pully system for driving and I don't really want to give up that much space)

Just my opinion but if your threading needs are for short sections in a limited range of sizes then I'd go with adjustable dies (to give you ability to adjust fit) in a tailstock die holder.
For a really enjoyable single point threading experience a quick change gearbox is a must in my opinion. Otherwise you are swapping change gears which may be a deterrent to single pointing. I'd suggest that for a short thread, it would be far quicker to break out a die and holder to crank it out.

If on the other hand you need to thread long sections then obviously you need to single point.

 

[gerritv]

What @David_R8 said. Even for long threads you can mount the die holder on the tool post.
Or you find someone local who has an ELS on their lathe -

 

[Susquatch]

prefer newer style lathe as my space is limited and the older models typically have a large open pully system for driving and I don't really want to give up that much space)

All this stuff boils down to what you want to do and your interests.

I started with an overhead belt drive lathe that the previous owner changed to a electric motor drive. That old lathe taught me things a newer model never would have.

But I have an oil bath gear head lathe with 16 internal threads and another 32 external gear change threads. I LOVE my newer lathe - quiet, smooth, powerful, precision.

As @David_R8 suggests, many members feel that changing gears to thread is a PIA. I'm not in this camp. I truly love operating my modern / old fashioned gear changes. I don't personally need or want an ELS. I truly love making parts manually and I've NEVER grown tired of changing gears or cranking the table hand wheels of my mill bed. Nothing makes me happier than turning handles to make a part the old fashioned way. I love how I can feel the force and vibration feedback of the cutter in my hands and know that it is happy with the feed rate I am applying and even know if the spindle speed needs to faster or slower.

Smaller and bigger lathes both have their place. So do used lathes and new lathes. You appear to have done a fair assessment of what's out there but you may have understated the availability of smaller midsized modern used lathes that could ring the bell on many fronts. Say something in the 10" swing with a shorter bed.

Generally speaking 4 kinds of people are selling these lathes. Flippers, guys who have worn out or broken or abused their machine, guys who want to upsize or downsize their machine or sell something to make space or save space, and guys who are moving on to another life phase. You want to avoid the first two and find the last two. They really are out there. You just need patience and perseverance to find them.

 

[dave_lawson@]

All this stuff boils down to what you want to do and your interests.

I started with an overhead belt drive lathe that the previous owner changed to a electric motor drive. That old lathe taught me things a newer model never would have.

But I have an oil bath gear head lathe with 16 internal threads and another 32 external gear change threads. I LOVE my newer lathe - quiet, smooth, powerful, precision.

As @David_R8 suggests, many members feel that changing gears to thread is a PIA. I'm not in this camp. I truly love operating my modern / old fashioned gear changes. I don't personally need or want an ELS. I truly love making parts manually and I've NEVER grown tired of changing gears or cranking the table hand wheels of my mill bed. Nothing makes me happier than turning handles to make a part the old fashioned way. I love how I can feel the force and vibration feedback of the cutter in my hands and know that it is happy with the feed rate I am applying and even know if the spindle speed needs to faster or slower.

Smaller and bigger lathes both have their place. So do used lathes and new lathes. You appear to have done a fair assessment of what's out there but you may have understated the availability of smaller midsized modern used lathes that could ring the bell on many fronts. Say something in the 10" swing with a shorter bed.

Generally speaking 4 kinds of people are selling these lathes. Flippers, guys who have worn out or broken or abused their machine, guys who want to upsize or downsize their machine or sell something to make space or save space, and guys who are moving on to another life phase. You want to avoid the first two and find the last two. They really are out there. You just need patience and perseverance to find them.

Thanks for this assessment. No arguments on any counts. On your last point I believe there is also a supply by people who tried to get into the hobby during covid but never really got immersed. Seems there are a lot of "runs well but never really used it". Anyway, thanks!

 

[dave_lawson@]

What @David_R8 said. Even for long threads you can mount the die holder on the tool post.
Or you find someone local who has an ELS on their lathe -

Thanks. ELS can be added on, as I've now conducted extensive research (30 seconds on Google) and see there are options from full add on kits to DIY websites with schematics, etc.

I have been granted confidence from the comments here!

 

[dave_lawson@]

Just my opinion but if your threading needs are for short sections in a limited range of sizes then I'd go with adjustable dies (to give you ability to adjust fit) in a tailstock die holder.
For a really enjoyable single point threading experience a quick change gearbox is a must in my opinion. Otherwise you are swapping change gears which may be a deterrent to single pointing. I'd suggest that for a short thread, it would be far quicker to break out a die and holder to crank it out.

If on the other hand you need to thread long sections then obviously you need to single point.

Thanks for the practical advice, especially as it matches my starting opinion...lol. Cheers,

 

[CWret]

Glade you started this thread.
I’ve been considering a 10x22 (or about that size lathe) so this will be an interesting journey i will follow.

 

[Susquatch]

On your last point I believe there is also a supply by people who tried to get into the hobby during covid but never really got immersed.

I put them in the same category as moving on to the next life phase.

I think your head is screwed on properly and you will find what you are looking for.

 

[gerritv]

Thanks. ELS can be added on, as I've now conducted extensive research (30 seconds on Google) and see there are options from full add on kits to DIY websites with schematics, etc.

I have been granted confidence from the comments here!

There are only 2 that I would ocnsider. the one by J Dammeyer (I have no direct experince but it is mature and does both axes) and Rocketronics (metric only but also mature and 2 axes). Clough42's is nifty but only 1 axis so imo not worth the effort vs. expense.

there are others but many are based on RELS4.1 which is a terrible bit of code. I speak from experience having tried it.