Talk me off of the edge…. How green is the grass really?

[BaitMaster]

Ok guys. I feel like I’ve come to a crossroads in my machining journey.

I’ve had some good conversations with some machinist friends, and started down the firestick smithing rabbit hole.

I’m looking on my project horizon, and at this point, the projects that I feel like I need to do, and the projects I want to do are different.

Most of the projects I have to do are to do with my lathe…. I want to make a spider for the through end, and a follow rest…. And a taper attachment…. And metric change gears. A dro would also be nice.

The projects I want to do are re-barreling some boom sticks I have, making some metric adaptors (large) for some electrical fittings, and making some cable adaptors for a Buddie to sell.

I’m feeling like I might be getting a little sunk cost fallacy with my lathe, as I looked again at the modern 1440 package which has EVERYTHiNG I want, and is about 10 ish grande.

I’m catching myself now thinking hey, what if I sold my utilathe, and got the modern package, then I can immediately stop working on my lathe, and tackle the projects I want to take on……

I also realized that my through hole in my SM is not big enough to accommodate 1.2” barrel blanks, which was an absolute nut punch.

My machinist friend said to look at the cost of all the upgrades/mods and factor in the time somewhat and see if it’s worth it to keep and tinker or just buy the one with everything.

The other thing is the through bore, which I will never be able to change.

Maybe time to pass the Utilathe off to another forum member?

I don’t know. I’m ranting.

 

[140mower]

As much as I love old iron and saving money, if having to work around too many short comings and buying the machine you want won't take food off the table, I say go for it....... But, only if you are actually getting exactly what you want. Any compromises that leave you back to "working around" something won't make for a great experience. Having said that, once in a while noodling your way through a problem can be most satisfying, too much though, can be aggravating.......

.......silly question to ask here though imho...... Of course we are going to spend your money, gunna up-sell you on the size and spend the money you save by staying away from the extended warranty on tooling for the new toy.....

 

[thestelster]

I also realized that my through hole in my SM is not big enough to accommodate 1.2” barrel blanks, which was an absolute nut punch.

I have rarely ever had to put a 1.25" barrel through the spindle. I always buy my barrels pre-turned to a desired contour. Thinking to save a couple bucks by buying a full blank is not cost-effective. The 1.250" breach end of the barrel easily fits into the hole of a 4 jaw.

My lathe has a 1.6" spindle bore, but I have turned 2" diam. bbls. Between centers, or chucked and steady rest. Chamber, threads, muzzle, crown and all.

 

[David]

The advice I've always read/heard is to figure out the kind of work you want to do and buy the machine that will do it.

 

[BaitMaster]

I have rarely ever had to put a 1.25" barrel through the spindle. I always buy my barrels pre-turned to a desired contour. Thinking to save a couple bucks by buying a full blank is not cost-effective. The 1.250" breach end of the barrel easily fits into the hole of a 4 jaw.

My lathe has a 1.6" spindle bore, but I have turned 2" diam. bbls. Between centers, or chucked and steady rest. Chamber, threads, muzzle, crown and all.

There’s some differing opinion on that I gather? Some say the spider/4jaw in the through hole is the only way to go, some say the steady is fine?

Do you ever do the spider technique or is the steady how you do everything?

 

[thestelster]

I always do a spider set up. There's two ways to do that.

1. 4-jaw chuck and 4-screw spider out-board

2. 8-screw spider held in a chuck

The steady was only used because I was working with 2" diameter bbls.

 

[YotaBota]

Not much choice when you want/need a bigger bore. That's about the only reason I upgraded from my SM9 as I was forever trying to find ways to fit a 1" bar into a 3/4" hole. I was also fortunate in that the SM1120 came with all the extra stuff.

Test drives help if you do that.

 

[thestelster]

Here is method #2.

 

[thestelster]

Rifle Action Truing

Yesterday I machined 10 flutes onto a barrel. Today we start the action and bolt truing. To achieve maximum accuracy in a rifle, all the surfaces which make contact with the barrel have to be true. The internal action threads, the action face, the recess where the bolt lugs lock into, all...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[thestelster]

Here's method #1. Of course this only works if the barrel is longer than the spindle bore.

 

[thestelster]

You have the SM1230. Spindle bore is 1 1/16". That shouldn't stop you from doing 99.9% of all gunsmithing jobs.

Metric gears: very few action use metric threads. (I made mine.)

Taper turning..meh. I made one after 37 years of gunsmithing.

Follow-rest...can come in handy, but not for the majority of gunsmithing. (I made this too.)

The experience will get making these items is priceless.

$10+k for that Modern lathe.... We can tell you what to spend $10k on instead!!

 

[Susquatch]

I also realized that my through hole in my SM is not big enough to accommodate 1.2” barrel blanks, which was an absolute nut punch.

My machinist friend said to look at the cost of all the upgrades/mods and factor in the time somewhat and see if it’s worth it to keep and tinker or just buy the one with everything.

The other thing is the through bore, which I will never be able to change.

Maybe time to pass the Utilathe off to another forum member?

That's a big decision. My dad always used to say that a decision is what you have to make when you don't have enough info to make the answer obvious. Always start by gathering info. Only make a decision when their is no more info to get. Of course, decision paralysis is equally nasty.

I say this because I think you are trying to make a decision too early. Unless you have the free cash to just go get a new one, you have lots of research and learning to do first.

I prefer to chamber through the headstock too. But most barrels taper down pretty fast. Very few need the big bore spindle. Plus you can always use an 8 or 12 bolt catseye to move it out as much as needed.

Are you really gunna be chucking a straight barrel? I NEVER buy straight barrels. NEVER. I have adjusted profiles but I hate doing it. It's CHEAP to get a barrel maker to grind you the exact profile you want.

Also, there are lots of guys who have done great work with a steady rest. It can be done to precision levels but isn't as easy.

It sounds to me like you need to go visit someone who has done this a lot. That or just keep asking questions here.

Unless you are wealthy, you are not ready to make a decision that big just yet. If you are wealthy just go buy what you want now and stop fussing about it.

 

[Susquatch]

You have the SM1230. Spindle bore is 1 1/16". That shouldn't stop you from doing 99.9% of all gunsmithing jobs.

@BaitMaster - if @thestelster is right about your spindle bore, this debate is over. Go measure the heaviest barrel you could ever imagine shooting (or carry) and find out where that 1-1/16 point is. Most likely it will be around 2 or 3" from the receiver shoulder. That's hoe much won't go into your spindle. By the time you add a spider, you are about perfect for working on it. Crowning will be the reverse with that much sticking out the backside.

 

[jorogi]

As much as I love old iron and saving money, if having to work around too many short comings and buying the machine you want won't take food off the table, I say go for it....... But, only if you are actually getting exactly what you want. Any compromises that leave you back to "working around" something won't make for a great experience. Having said that, once in a while noodling your way through a problem can be most satisfying, too much though, can be aggravating.......

.......silly question to ask here though imho...... Of course we are going to spend your money, gunna up-sell you on the size and spend the money you save by staying away from the extended warranty on tooling for the new toy.....

You talking lathes or dump trucks ?

 

[140mower]

You talking lathes or dump trucks ?

Lathes....... Only thing more stressful than trucks are wives.....

 

[BaitMaster]

So where are you guys getting these profiled barrel blanks then? I guess just me looking at it profiling a blank would make sense when a bare blank is 200$ and the profiled ones I have found are 4-600$ a piece….. I’m definitely open to educating myself out of a non predicament…..

Basically everything I’ve done with machining is by trial and error and reading this forum/ manuals/ books/ watching YouTube videos. So I’ve never spent any time with someone who’s done anything.

Willing to learn completely.

@thestelster @Susquatch

 

[Chipper5783]

I’m confused by the consideration, about passing on the SM lathe for a bigger machine (especially with more bells and whistles) - sure when you’re dead. No lathe has “everything” one could want on a lathe. Keep the little lathe and get the bigger one. One lathe vs no lathe is a game changer. Two lathes are are really good set up (even if they are the same size - of course different capabilities is the intent). Having three lathes, well then you can get some very cool operations going. Add #4 and . . . . . You see where this is going. Just trying to help.

 

[thestelster]

a bare blank is 200$ and the profiled ones I have found are 4-600$ a piece….. I’m

Where are you getting rifle barrel blanks for $200cdn?

Basically everything I’ve done with machining is by trial and error and reading this forum/ manuals/ books/ watching YouTube videos. So I’ve never spent any time with someone who’s done anything.

Willing to learn completely.

That's probably how the majority of us have learned..
School of Hardknocks!!

Ask us anything and we'll do our best to help. Maybe through PM's?

 

[BaitMaster]

Pm sent. I’m talked off of the edge for now….. I think.

 

[Susquatch]

@BaitMaster

I've never seen a straight barrel for $200 that was worth buying.

I agree with @thestelster. Might be best to move this discussion to a PM. There are a few others on here who could help too. If you leave the PM open, we can add others as appropriate. You will have a headache in no time...... LOL!

The only thing between you and the answers you seek is the need to ask a question.