Surface grinder pricing?

[justin1]

I'm looking into buying a manual surface grinder 6x18 ish seems to be couple around Vancouver that look in ok condition.

Just curious on rough price points for them in BC as they don't seem to come up very often and seem to sit on market for while.

I've been kinda stocking the Ontario Facebook market place area to make get better idea of value but they are all over the place anywhere from 800$ - 2500$

Not too worried about age or if it's manual or hydraulic just want something easyish to fix and usable enough to play with till I feel the need to pull a part and make better later on.

Kinda interested in manuals as they probably don't see as much wear as the hydraulic and can be converted to CNC if a guy felt need for it.

Just don't want to really over pay for a paper weight that's not worth fixing in the corner of shop lol

 

[DavidR8]

I sold my minty Parker Majestic 6x18 for $1200 but that was pre-pandemic so...

 

[justin1]

Im not sure if pandemic had much effect surface grinders and other manual machining equipment but maybe. some stuff definitely related to the use of those machines did go up lol

 

[justin1]

O ye also gonna note I'm willing to drive to Edmonton/calgary to get one if all else fails lol Vancouver same distance from me as Calgary lol

 

[DavidR8]

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[Susquatch]

Just don't want to really over pay for a paper weight that's not worth fixing in the corner of shop lol

I think your Ontario price range is about right.

And I agree that manual is prolly more likely to be in better shape than hydraulic. Anyone with high usage is gunna want to upgrade to hydraulic sooner than later.

I rather love my 6x12 manual and it's an oldie.

I think the hardest part of buying a surface grinder is gauging the wear on the ways. Especially the Z-Axis cuz they are hidden from prying eyes. But I think you can reasonably expect them to be just a wee bit less worn than the X-axis.

Spindle condition is always hard to gauge too. Best if you can see it in action.

I use mine more than I ever expected to. I don't remember who it was on here that warned me that everything I made on the mill would soon need grinding too. They were absolutely correct. I'm trying hard to restrain myself from overdoing it and wearing it out. I prolly have the only farm in all of North America with surface ground coil brackets..... It's a pretty cool machine!

 

[justin1]

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I did see that one. it's the one I'm kinda questioning as I feel like it's on high end but don't want to low ball the fellow. I did reach out to him the other day asking about it but I guess he got in with handful of other equipment. Got his number was gonna give him call once I've figured out if it's worth pursuing. That and I'm stuck at work till October 12th so can't do in person look. Which doesn't help with giving an offer on equipment lol.

either that there is a 2 hydraulic ones that are 1750 and 1500 in area but look pretty used and missing parts and a newish grizzly machine for 2600 but looks kinda neglected

 

[Chipper5783]

Obviously condition is a major influence on price. Also, consider how well the machine is kitted out: does it come with basic spindle tools, is there a nice mag chuck, are there some additional wheels and arbors, etc?

I have bought two surface grinders, neither had much wear: the first was cheap ($600), but was bare, no magnet, coolant system removed, no spindle tools, only the wheel that was on it and in pieces. The second ($3500) had the magnet, a balance stand and shaft, three extra arbors (the kind with moveable weights) and 8 additional wheels (several being brand new). The second is also larger and fancier. It is always hard to make a direct comparison - when all was said and done the two grinders cost me about the same.

 

[justin1]

Mk good thing to think about forgot I would need method of balancing the wheels and it look like the one I'm looking at doesn't have coolant system but easy enough to add,

When Im done work I'll prob try and give the fellow a call see what all it comes with or if it's just machine and mag base

I don't really have any surface grinder related tools just tool maker vise and sin plate would there be much additional that a guy would want or maybe look into. Only real plan for surface grinder ATM is machine tool reconditioning and making lathe tooling general making things look sexier lol and fooling around with thenths machining.

 

[Susquatch]

look like the one I'm looking at doesn't have coolant system but easy enough to add,

I don't have coolant and don't want it. Grinders are messy enough without coolant. Slow and steady works fine.

 

[Chipper5783]

Humm, Justin - it sounds like you are asking this group if you ought to buy more tools. Pretty sure the answer is going to be “yes”. If you are going to be doing general grinding of stuff and work to tenths machining - there are lots of tools to buy.

In order to machine to “tenths”, you have to be able to measure to that degree of precision. Surface plate, couple types of tenth dials, gauge blocks, good square, wheel dressers . . .

Susq is right about coolant being messy, though it does depend on the machine. Some grinders are poorly designed / setup and spread coolant far and wide. My little grinder is not great (I’ve fiddled with it to the point it is manageable). My bigger grinder is a better design & manages the coolant pretty well. So, once again, “Coolant?” “It depends.”

Coolant is a huge benefit if you are hoping to hit tenths numbers on thicker parts (thermal distortion is very much a factor).

 

[jorogi]

Got mine in Langley about 4 years ago. Use it lots, well at least as a percentage of what I do. Saw it running but not grinding. It had been moved to the back and a CNC unit had replaced it. It was originally from Boeing and had been rebuilt by them prior to disposal. It came with coolant, a dozen stones, 4 leveling feet and a very nice variable electric mag chuck. Just the one hub and no wrenches.
I rewired the motors to 220 3 phase from 440 and replaced the 5 drive belts, made the wrenches and I need to replace the seals in the hydraulic cylinder as they leak a little bit.
All in all it has been great, one of my favorite machines. I'm not sure how old it is but I'd guess late 70s. It's a Browne and Sharp 618 and IIRC I paid 3000.

John

 

[jorogi]

I don't have coolant and don't want it. Grinders are messy enough without coolant. Slow and steady works fine.

I have the coolant and don't use it enough. I am lazy and will dry grind for appearance, coolant would require 5-10 minutes clean up. However when I do use the coolant I find it keeps a lot crap down so the shop doesn't get any where near as much grinding dust everywhere.

John

 

[Dabbler]

I have bought two surface grinders, neither had much wear

it sounds like you are asking this group if you ought to buy more tools. Pretty sure the answer is going to be “yes”.

I bought mine in B.C. and drove it here. Coolant was included - i gave that away. Mine came with 1 wheel and arbour, teh arbour wrench/puller and a very good variable electric chuck. For dry grinding on small parts, it still achieves around a half tenth on the 5 block test. I paid 3000 for it. -- howeer mine is 6X12, and totally manual. I far prefer the totally manual grinders, even though my shoulders won't thank me in a few years. I've considered a streamlined coolant for tricky grinding - such as brass and aluminum, but the original unit took a square yard of real estate, and *really* not worth it.

if any one asks if they should buy a surface grinder, of course the answer is *yes*!!

 

[justin1]

Humm, Justin - it sounds like you are asking this group if you ought to buy more tools.

In order to machine to “tenths”, you have to be able to measure to that degree of precision. Surface plate, couple types of tenth dials, gauge blocks, good square, wheel dresser.

Haha ye I do enjoying getting more tools. I just more or less want to be better informed about pricing so I don't rush into buying something I'm unfamiliar with and find out I could of got a machine I didn't have to rebuild for same price lol

I've got couple tools that can measure thenths but. I've been keeping eye for proper surface plate (got a lee valley one ATM) but I'm hoping to make bunch of the references in the future.

Got foundry build planned for this winter so I can play with casting iron And make more stuff so I can make even more stuff with that stuff.

Coolant, I'm probly gonna end up doing mist sprayer on my machines less mess I think but who knows as I learn to use my machines better maybe I'll start working fast enough to need flood coolant.

 

[Dabbler]

Coolant, I'm probly gonna end up doing mist sprayer on my machines less mes

Using mist coolant requires some kind of breathing protection - it atomizes the coolant and that lingers in the air quite a bit. It also gets to other machines in the near vicinity - eventually. If you have a rust problem, mist coolant might make it worse...

Some guys fiddle the sprayer to send larger droplets to mitigate this problem.

I refuse to use mist coolant since I was in a shop many years ago and the mist traveled 10 feet, around a corner and to where I was standing. In those days coolant used oils that too quickly supported staff infections. I have reactive airways, so mist is simply 'no' for me.

 

[Susquatch]

I have reactive auirways, so mist is simply 'no' for me.

Ditto here. Had pneumonia too many times already. I don't need coolant that badly. Don't really care how much it improves the machining. I mostly cut dry but when that doesn't work, a little dab of brush or drip on cutting fluid works plenty well enough for me.

 

[Susquatch]

In order to machine to “tenths”, you have to be able to measure to that degree of precision.

I've got couple tools that can measure thenths

Others might disagree, but I'm in the camp that says your metrology should be an order of magnitude better than your machining goals. Especially if your metrology is digital. This is why I put so much emphasis on calibrating and proofing my metrology.

If your goal is a thou, and you use a digital caliper to measure it, how do you know if your result is +/- a thou (or more) away from that? Even the best metrology typically specifies an accuracy tolerance that is quite a bit more than its precision.

So if I need a part to be within a thou of a given target, I would always use metrology that is calibrated and qualified in tenths of a thou. That's the only way that I know I can have any real confidence in my actual final dimension.

As always, temperature considerations are a huge factor too.

 

[Dabbler]

I'm in the camp that says your metrology should be an order of magnitude better than your machining goals

I am in that camp also.

I've got couple tools that can measure thenths but.

Resolution and accuracy are completely unrelated animals. Cats and Dogs. In order to get to tenths machining, every measurement has to derive from a trusted source. Just buying an expensive micrometer won't do - it has to be calibrated from time to time with gauge blocks, for instance. In day - to - day work using a micrometer standard gets you 90% there, if used often enough. *Using* the measurement tools also has to be practiced regularly - poor micrometer technique can easily skew results by several tenths if not far more.

Over the first 15 years of machining I'd regularly take a random gauge block out of the set (with gloves on, I'm not a barbarian!) and measure it with my vernier caliper, and write the figure down. And then I'd check it with my micrometer, and write that down. Only then I would look at the block and see the 'true' result. After thousands of these practice runs, I could get all three to agree better than 90% of the time.

This, despite my claim that I only machine to +/- 3 thou. At least I know that i am in that range.

 

[Susquatch]

Resolution and accuracy are completely unrelated animals. Cats and Dogs.

Good comments @Dabbler. If I might, I would add precision to your list. If resolution and accuracy are two unrelated animals, then I think precision and accuracy are both dogs, but one is a Chiwauwau (Sp?) and the other is a Great Dane. Or perhaps I should say that one is on your bench and the other is in Mexico....... LMAO!

Comparing to known standards and/or proven metrics is what I call "qualifying". It might not be the best term, but it's what I call it.