Suggestions on a MT3 taper tailstock threading die holder?

[calgaryguy]

Looking to pickup a threading die tailstock holder in MT3 taper.

Like this: https://www.amazon.ca/Tailstock-Flo...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Amazon has tons of options, but Im wondering if a member has any direct experience with a particular vendor/model.

 

[CalgaryPT]

Not this particular one, but similar ( https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08FXTSWDG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) that does tapping as well. I think from my research and what others have said, the pros/cons are similar for all.

I am happy with mine, but here are a few considerations:

1) You need round dies, not hex. If buying round dies, the alignment indents for the screws may or may not align well. There doesn't seem to be a universal standard for the offset of the screws (30 degrees / 60 degrees), so you either have to be OK with the screws not setting in the indents, or ask questions when buying. Some round dies have no indents, such as mine, but still seem to work OK.

2) You can either use the holder manually with the lathe and tailstock as a big alignment tool, or engage the holder under power. Both methods work fine. I find I use it manually most of the time, unless threading a bunch of round bar.

3) I was disappointed that you really can only thread 3/4 of an inch or so. But this is generally enough to get things started straight— then you can use a traditional die holder for the rest.

I think there are designs out there that allow for longer threading, and I am sure more talented machinists on this site have built better ones. But for the money I was really happy with mine. It solves the one big issue I had with threading rod, which was getting a solid, straight thread started well enough to do the rest by hand if needed. I'm no machinist and have never done threading on my lathe, so this holder was a great fit for my skills.

 

[calgaryguy]

Not this particular one, but similar ( https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08FXTSWDG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) that does tapping as well. I think from my research and what others have said, the pros/cons are similar for all.

I am happy with mine, but here are a few considerations:

1) You need round dies, not hex. If buying round dies, the alignment indents for the screws may or may not align well. There doesn't seem to be a universal standard for the offset of the screws (30 degrees / 60 degrees), so you either have to be OK with the screws not setting in the indents, or ask questions when buying. Some round dies have no indents, such as mine, but still seem to work OK.

2) You can either use use the holder manually with the lathe and tailstock as a big alignment tool, or engage the holder under power. Both methods work fine. I find I use it manually most of the time, unless threading a bunch of round bar.

3) I was disappointed that you really can only thread 3/4 of an inch or so. But this is generally enough to get things started straight— then you can use a traditional die holder for the rest.

I think there are designs out there that allow for longer threading, and I am sure more talented machinists on this site have built better ones. But for the money I was really happy with mine. It solves the one big issue I had with threading rod, which was getting a solid, straight thread started well enough to do the rest by hand if needed. I'm no machinist and have never done threading on my lathe, so this holder was a great fit for my skills.

Thanks for the info!

I'm planning on using it in a manual fashion to try and get the best thread-shaft alignment results. Most of what I need to do it 3/4-1" depth anyways, so the depth limitation isnt a huge deal.

Fyi, I think this style allows for longer threading with a die https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07CBVFLF3?psc=1&smid=A2WWL53CQK8WP1&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

 

[CalgaryPT]

Ahh, that brings up an important point discussed in an earlier thread on these holders: you definitely want the floating type holder. This enables you to advance the die under power, but when you back off the pressure, it stops threading.

The original thread follows, if you haven't already found it: https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/anyone-use-a-floating-tailstock-die-holder.4004/

WRT to longer length—yes, the second one you reference does look longer. However, be aware that the length of the die holder isn't the only obstacle to thread length. The inside bore of the die holder will limit most stock over 1/2" as it won't pass through to realize the full length you see in the pic.

Haven't said this, I still think they are a great addition to the shop.

 

[ShawnR]

I made this one. It works well. The commercial ones posted are obviously a little more elaborate but whatever you get, they are great. I can see how eliminating the chuck would be beneficial but simply turning the MT3 taper onto the guide rod would work....I think.... ? I might try that as an upgrade. Making it allows you to set the holes for the die indents according to your die set...as @CalgaryPT mentioned. They might not align otherwise.

 

[CalgaryPT]

I made this one. It works well. The commercial ones posted are obviously a little more elaborate but whatever you get, they are great. I can see how eliminating the chuck would be beneficial but simply turning the MT3 taper onto the guide rod would work....I think.... ? I might try that as an upgrade. Making it allows you to set the holes for the die indents according to your die set...as @CalgaryPT mentioned. They might not align otherwise.

You're a better man than me. I'm not skilled enough to make my own (yet). But yours looks terrific. Nice work Shawn.

 

[PeterT]

I have an Ebay (made in India) version that looks a bit more like this with extended cylindrical slide surface. I figured if the die heads were crappy (which they kind of are) at least I could salvage the MT3 / cylindrical section part which is kind of a pain to make a good one without taper attachment. Then just make make my own die heads as I did before (att pic).

IMO some of the cons to these TS dies heads are

- there is some variation in the dies themselves 1) slight factory variations in nominal OD 2) if they are the classic pinch screw adjuster they will be slightly bigger/smaller than nominal. So even though the set screws retain them in position, they probably not end up quite concentric with the spindle axis. Depending on the amount & thread type it may or may not be an issue but it has the potential of cutting less than ideal threads. The dies are intended to be mounted to handled devices, so this isn't an issue whereas the TS is fixed. If you want to get into floating head, that's the proper fix, but yet another do-dad

- dies vary like crazy in where the detent divots are which is frustrating to any handle or head. If your head doesn't match then you might need to re-drill some

- die threading might have limits in a lathe depending on your material & size. Brass, aluminum, mild steel is usually no problem, but I was having a rough go on bigger threads in tougher materials like tool steel & stainless where it wanted to spin in the chuck, took some grunt to thread & results were not optimal. Single point threading is really superior when it comes down to it & you can buy or make cutters for the price of a single die. But I recognize that not everyone is set up for that & even so strange threads (including metric) creep into our world, so for sure dies have a purpose.

 

[Dusty]

@ShawnR what size dies does your holder take? Could you provide measurements as to body size as seen in your photo?

 

[ShawnR]

@ShawnR what size dies does your holder take? Could you provide measurements as to body size as seen in your photo?

@Dusty I can but I would just be providing the size of my dies. Making it, you bore it to your particular die set, in my case, a Mastercraft set. I think they were 1 inch but I will check when I go out to the shop. The guide rod is 1/2" and the other dimensions are very flexible, more dependent upon esthetics than anything else. Well, the wall needs to be thick enough to support a few threads of the locking screws. Quinn in the video comments on this.

You're a better man than me. I'm not skilled enough to make my own (yet). But yours looks terrific. Nice work Shawn.

Thanks @CalgaryPT . I consider myself on the low end of the learning curve so I feel the old adage...."if I can do it, you can" applies here. It is a nice little project involving taper cutting (just adjusting the compound) and some shallow boring, both nice skills to work on and simple, in this application. And the dimensions, mostly, are not critical, other than the die size, and even that is not a press fit or similar so a couple thous room there, I think. At the end of the day, a very rewarding project that I use often, and feel good about. I think in the video, Quinn reams the guide bore. I drilled the hole, then made my guide rod the dimension that I needed cause I don't have any reamers. I think a new drill bit and a piece of drill rod will be a pretty good match that might be tuned with sand paper on a lathe so as to work.

Hoping you try it. If it fails, you can always still order one.

Cheers,

 

[RobinHood]

I was having a rough go on bigger threads in tougher materials like tool steel & stainless where it wanted to spin in the chuck, took some grunt to thread & results were not optima

I second that comment.

One way around it I found by cutting most of the thread using single point technique (even with sub optimal cutter shape) and then run the die on it to finish it. Quality dies usually have all the correct root/peak radii ground in them and thus the result is very good as far as dimensions are concerned.

 

[RobinHood]

I have two shop made die holders (from tool buys) that work for most dies I have. I use the die-handle-in-front-of-the-quill method a lot. Kind of need three hands for best results though…

 

[ShawnR]

@ShawnR what size dies does your holder take? Could you provide measurements as to body size as seen in your

@Dusty Sorry it took so long but here are the measurements.

The body is about 2 inches long, 1.25" diameter at the wide part. The recess for the die is 0.979" in my case, to fit my dies and is about 0.330" deep. The guide rod is 1/2" diameter.

As I said, exterior dimensions are not too critical. I think I used M5 or M6 screws for the lock screws.

I know,....bad Shawn...mixing imperial and metric. I bought a assorted metric set of cap screws so use them when I can.

 

[Dusty]

The more I thought on it I wasn't going to allow this project sit idle so over the past couple of weeks I've puttered around in the shop lame leg and all. First things first I drew a drawing choosing to go with the 1.750" diameter due to the fact I didn't have 1.50" material. Drawing and some photos hope this helps someone.

Photos 1-3 die holder machined with 1" diameter stub end to fit my 5C collet.
Photos 4 & 5 holes drilled and threaded to 10-24NC using 5/8" long cap screws,1" diameter die showing. Drilled 2 tammy bar through holes allowing the tammy bar to be repositioned with each quarter turn.
Photos 6 & 7 back to my lathe, 1" stub removed, shaft and tommy bar cut to length, and finally body blued.

May need to shorten the shaft and tommy bar after I try this rig out the way it sits that's why they are not blued.

 

[YYCHM]

The more I thought on it I wasn't going to allow this project sit idle so over the past couple of weeks I've puttered around in the shop lame leg and all. First things first I drew a drawing choosing to go with the 1.750" diameter due to the fact I didn't have 1.50" material. Some photos hope this helps someone.

Go Bill Go!!! Glad to hear you're back in the shop again.....

 

[Dusty]

Go Bill Go!!! Glad to hear you're back in the shop again.....

As of today I am 8 months post surgery, you really don't know how good it felt to be out in my shop. Sure helped to shake winter cobwebs and doldrums. Right leg complained some but I put up with it, water retention and slow gains with knee motion continue.

Bottom line safety first, slow and easy does it. This die holder project really got my mojo moving.

 

[PeterT]

Nice Bill.
So your dies are non-split & retention divots at 90-deg? I'll have to go back & check mine, I'm having dejavue all over again. Seems like I drilled the set retention screw holes & realized some of my dies were different.

 

[Dusty]

Nice Bill.
So your dies are non-split & retention divots at 90-deg? I'll have to go back & check mine, I'm having dejavue all over again. Seems like I drilled the set retention screw holes & realized some of my dies were different.

@PeterT thank you for your comments, you might drill a second set of holes (bottom side) to accommodate a different die dimple set up.

Yes my 1" diameter die set right up to 7/16" threads (imperial and metric) are not split although from 1/2" thread up they are.

In my work up sketch drawing (post #13) you will find that I would require a second die holder to accommodate the 1.50" split dies. Have never, ever, used my split die set beyond 5/8" so I'm debating with myself should I make a second die holder for the 1.5". Would be nice to have for chasing threads although most likely a seldom used shop tool. Shall think on that, think, think, think! LOL

 

[ShawnR]

The more I thought on it I wasn't going to allow this project sit idle so over the past couple of weeks I've puttered around in the shop lame leg and all. ......

Great job Dusty!! Shop therapy!

Nice!

 

[ShawnR]

Here is another couple projects to compliment the die holder. Both very similar. I built Tubal Cains but Quinn also does one. I use this tool a lot! Drill press, milling machine and lathe.

 

[PaulL]

I felt inspired by the simplicity of this tap follower, so I started on one last night. Body take 1 is done, and I'll probably throw it out and re-do it as 12mm instead of 1/2in, as i have a 12mm reamer arriving before friday, but didn't want to cough up for the 1/2in reamer.
For the flat on the point I think I'll drop the stock on my face plate and treat it like a combination of internal cutting and facing, as I don't have a mill. Probably time for me to start one of these journal threads...