Suggest a Mill

[casche]

Hey all,

I’ve just joined to get some input. I’ll be shopping for my first mill soon once my shop space is completed.

Im an absolute beginner. I primarily make knives and would be looking for a mill suitable for that type of work.

Could I get some help realizing what the best options are ?

I’m in Nova Scotia and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of second hand bench mills in the classifieds here.

 

[Susquatch]

Welcome Casche!

I'm in Ontario and I don't make knives.

But there are a few highly active members out your way. I'm sure you can get the help you need. A visit to one of their shops would be solid gold to you.

 

[YYCHM]

Welcome from Calgary.

 

[140mower]

Welcome from Lillooet BC....
Our specialty here is trying to find new and creative ways of spending each other's money. Patience is key if you are looking for good used, also, be ready and willing to move quickly if you do find something that you like, as they don't last long when the deal is good.
How much bench space do you have available, as bench top machines can vary quite a bit in size? Is 220 volt available or are you limited to 110? I'm sure we will have more questions than answers, but with those two it gives us a starting point.

 

[casche]

Thanks.

I’m not limited to 110 and I can have a dedicated outlet.

Still ironing out the details but I’ll have roughly 750 sqr ft of shop space. A mill isn’t the most import tool I have so it can be sized appropriately.

Flexible on the budget but up to 4000 CAD is reasonable.

 

[DPittman]

If you keep to knife making your milling requirements won't likely be large and a bench top milling machine will be sufficient. Of course bigger and more powerful almost anything is nicer but space and budgets often dictate otherwise.

Are you thinking about cnc milling for blanks and artwork on your knifes?

Welcome to the forum.

 

[casche]

It would be lovely to have the option to convert to CNC at some point in the future. I’ve seen kits advertised for some PM machines.

That wouldn’t be the typical work. I would be focused on machining of guards, pommels, spacers etc.

At some point if I had the time and interest it would be cool to get into CNC.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Welcome from Victoria

 

[Tecnico]

Welcome from another Bluenoser! Good to see another local in the crowd. What part of NS are you in? I’m @HRM.

You’re right, the pickings are thin in these parts but keep an eye out and be fast and patient and you could be pleasantly surprised. For $4k you’re getting in the neighborhood of an experienced full size machine in decent shape. I realized this when I started thinking seriously about shopping for a mill.

EDIT: I wound up with a full sized First machine, a very good Bridgeport clone. (Clone in this case being a copy closely fitting the pattern of the original with many dimensions very close or potentially the same as the original. Some parts may interchange or not.) /EDIT.

Some advice: have a transport plan figured out so you can jump on the right deal. There is plenty of good advice documented here for shopping and moving equipment.

Good hunting!

D

 

[whydontu]

Welcome from Vancouver!

 

[Susquatch]

Some advice: have a transport plan figured out so you can jump on the right deal.

That's damn good advice spoken with the voice of experience!

YOU IGNORE THIS ADVICE AT YOUR PERIL.

Wow! $4k should get you a gorgeous mill even in NovaScotia.

Also, have a checkup list handy so you are not scrounging around for info and doing research when you should be focussed on getting there yesterday.

Here is a start that can be customized for whatever you are looking for:

Post in thread 'First milling machine' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/first-milling-machine.5441/post-80421

 

[CWret]

Prelude 1: i bought my first ever mill 10 months ago and I’m still smiling.
Prelude 2: this forum was a GREAT help.

Lots of good used options come up occasionally but that lower used machine price comes without dealer support, advise or new machine warranty. Lots of leg work, knowledge and luck are required to get a good used machine. But very doable. I had a couple of bad experiences attempting to buy used (really pissed me off trying to deal with deceitful sellers). I spent almost twice my original budget, but as an inexperienced guy (zero milling experience) - new worked well for me (I bought a new RF45 clone from Modern Tool and I am very happy with both the mill and especially Modern T). Whatever machine you choose- expect to spend several thousand on tooling- I did and not done yet!
So - with a 4k budget you should be looking for a 2k mill. There is lots to choose from in that price range. As you will learn - bigger is better, but bigger = more $.

FYI: You’ll need 2k for a good vise and tooling whether you spend 2k on the mill or 4k. Kinda looks like you should up the anti on the mill expenditure. But then again - 2k tooling and a 2k mill is a great start. You may never want a bigger mill. ?? To be determined.

The good news is ‘tooling cost only hurts a little bit at a time’
But the bad news is ‘it never stops’

 

[Tecnico]

Also, have a checkup list handy so you are not scrounging around for info and doing research when you should be focused on getting there yesterday.

Very good advice from Mr. @Susquatch. Doing your homework is time well spent so you know how to tell whether the machine is in good enough shape and capable enough to do the work you want to do (good value for the $).

Prelude 2: this forum was a GREAT help.

^^ This is TRUE!

For tooling/accessories, the first thing you will probably shop for is a vise up to doing what you need to do and a hold down set. A Kurt vise is nice but it has to fit your budget and needs, I don't have a Kurt they don't grow on trees around here.

You will want a collection of collets that meet your budget & needs. That might be a full set of ER style or R8s, it just depends on what might come with your machine if it's an experienced machine. I'm still using the handful of ER style SYOZ collets that came with my machine and haven't found a burning need to invest in a full set.

Check the fine print on collet sets, they come in various levels of accuracy vs. $.

Enjoy the ride.

D

 

[Susquatch]

So - with a 4k budget you should be looking for a 2k mill.

Silly me! I took what @casche said verbatim and assumed he had 4k for just the mill and had wondered about what he had budgeted for tooling. That would be awesome, but you are prolly right. More likely 4k for both.

 

[casche]

Thanks everyone for the replies. It seems I had the notifications off.

Yes the 4K would be total including a few tools to get started doing what I need to do. Like anything, I would expect to spend more to do more over time.

Is there anything inherently wrong with PM, HiTorque, Craftex or Grizzly bench mills ?

Have any if you here shopped cross border for a new mill ?

I doubt I would have the time to do enough research to become confident in buying used.

 

[6.5 Fan]

The only thing i will mention is that the round column mill/drills can be a pain to keep in line when raising or lowering the head unless you are prepared to build some kind of acc, to keep it in line, the belt changes can become tedious as well.

 

[Susquatch]

Yes the 4K would be total including a few tools to get started doing what I need to do. Like anything, I would expect to spend more to do more over time.

A "few tools" will include a vise. Don't cheap out here.

So basically, 2k for the mill and 2k for the tooling. Maybe a bit more for the mill and less for the tooling as you "do more over time"

Is there anything inherently wrong with PM, HiTorque, Craftex or Grizzly bench mills ?

I think PM & Grizzly are a small step above the other two with better support and parts availability. Grizzly's user manuals are well known to be well done. Craftex has a huge base of happy customers and they are readily available in Canada. Don't know where HiTorque fits in.

Have any if you here shopped cross border for a new mill ?

I bought my lathe in the USA 11 years ago. I'd do it again in a heart beat. But I'm an hour from the border. Some might ship from there to here, but that gets expensive and suddenly you are looking at 1.5k machines to hit your 2k price. If you have the time, the trailer, and don't mind the drive, just go get it. Somehow or another the gas and the motel don't become part of the price!

I doubt I would have the time to do enough research to become confident in buying used.

This is your call. Only you knows you. At least with new, you have all the time in the world to do your research.

 

[CWret]

I had several bad experiences with deceitful sellers. Despite good advice from the forum - my inexperience made me vulnerable. Therefore i bought new. That upped the initial cost but it was a good choice for me.
I mentioned above i got a bench top from Modern Tool. They don’t deal with small machines- mine is their smallest mill and it was $4950. With the custom stand, vise, DRO, dividing head, metrology stuff, and lots of cutting tools and holders - the cost grew quickly (I’m reluctant to actually add it all up, especially if my better half happened to see it).
But my mill weighs in at over 1,000 pounds. There is lots of 350 +/- lb mills from most sources you mentioned above to keep initial total cost at 4k (you’re likely a bit low when you add in taxes and delivery).
I said ‘most’ because getting a PM across the border will bust your budget and i think finding a used PM is very unlikely.
I almost pulled the trigger on a PM932V but advise from the forum put me onto MT and i got their MD45. (I believe the PM932 is a much better mill, at nearly 2k more, but i like my MD and I’m very happy the MT experience). If you want (can) increase your budget have a look at a new PM25MV. Check out Quinn on YouTube at Blondihacks. She recently upgraded from a PM25 to their PM728 (see her YouTube post: New Machine Day! PM-728).

 

[CWret]

as Susq said “If you have the time, the trailer, and don't mind the drive, just go get it” I considered going to PM. (Probably would have done the drive if I’d gone with the PM mill.) That would have been a fun drive and also they promised me a tour. But no cost savings. Plus it is an unknown hassle and cost at the border. If all goes well at the border the overall trip could be fun and about a break even price IMO. PM has a good relationship with brokerage guys and no hassles at customs.
Also: when you go to PM they must charge you 7% state tax and 1% local tax - but when they ship it out of state they don’t charge that tax and it’s not worth the legal cost to try and recover that tax.

 

[Upnorth]

I'm also in Nova Scotia. Unfortunately used mills are rarely available for sale here. More accurate is that they are rarely advertised. I have a small CNC mill and lathe that I heard about. I got both for $1k. No controls but both were in like new condition. Extra heavy for benchtop machines. Deals can be found in NS but you really have to ask around. Last other two mills I heard of that sold were not advertised. One was quite large but went cheap. The other one went for free to a friend of mine. Maybe have a few $k cash and ask around at some machine shops before going new if nothing shows up. More likely to find a deal on a full size mill than a benchtop one.

What part of NS are you in?