Standard modern 1230 utilathe… value?

[BaitMaster]

Got a line on one of these and went and looked at it. Comes with a bunch of tooling and centers and a qctp and a homemade steady….

3 and 4 jaw Pratt chuck…

No follow or taper attachment.

4000$ was his bottom dollar.

Opinions? Thought? Buy? Pass?

 

[Tom Kitta]

Where are you?

Here is manual for it https://standardmodernlathes.com/docs/manuals/standard-modern-utilathe-1230-inch-manual.pdf

Old iron.

 

[YotaBota]

How familiar are you with lathes?

What is your impression of the overall condition?

Did you go thru all the gears? Is the headstock quiet or does it rattle little old jimmy?

Will they let you take the top off the headstock to check the gears?

Page two of the manual says what was standard with the machine, how much of it is there?

https://standardmodernlathes.com/docs/manuals/standard-modern-utilathe-1230-inch-manual.pdf

Did you run the carriage all the way left/right? If you just snug up the carriage stop when close to the chuck and run it to the right how much does it tighten up?

In today's market, depending on where you are, if it runs well and will do what you want/need then it's probably not a bad deal, not a steal or gloat by any means but okay.

 

[BaitMaster]

Not super familiar. I’m used to Cnc plasma, 3D printing, and some mill stuff. Don’t know a whole lot about lathes other then reading.

My general impression of the thing was that it’s in good shape. I inspected the ways and tested most of the gears and everything works good. Power feed works good. Doesn’t look very used. Oil was lower then sight glass and didn’t have the wrench to open the headstock, but I could go back and do that I’m sure. Gears not inside the headstock looked in great shape. Everything felt tight but smooth.

I’ll post pics. I don’t really like the fact it doesn’t thread metric…. But I want a lathe and getting used ones is difficult.

Not sure what to think about it.

 

[BaitMaster]

I did run the it to the ends of all the travels and it all feels snug and smooth. Runs quiet. No clicks or rattles. I’m not sure where the carriage stop is on this one though. There doesn’t seem to be a lever for it. Do you guys know?

 

[Chipper5783]

You can set that up to cut metric threads. That lathe will have an Imperial thread on the lead screw (very common). You would need to acquire the mechanical conversion gear (usually 127 tooth gear), then work out what gearing selection on the quick change box is need, perhaps some other back end change gears (likely others have already figured it out). An Imperial lathe which can “thread metric” has simply already had those details worked out for you.

I have two Imperial lathes that can thread metric, one has the mechanical conversion gear available on a leaver (though it still misses a couple common metric threads, I need change gears to get all common metric threads). The second lathe I have to swap in change gears and follow the chart in the manual to select the qc gears in order to get the correct metric pitch.

I also have a SM 11 LD (looks just like the 12 LD in your photos), I have not specifically looked into what gearing is needed for metric threading - perhaps others here on the forum have?

 

[Chipper5783]

There is a carriage lock over on the RH side of the carriage. A carriage stop that bolts to the bed is something one could make. There is probably an official SM carriage stop that could be purchased as an extra. The manual shows a micrometer carriage stop. The manual also shows a “metric transposing gear”.

 

[Tom Kitta]

This all depends on where you are. It is an old lathe. It is a 12 x 30.

You can get this brand new machine for just 4500 CAD -

Buy 12in. X 28in. Metal Lathe 1.5hp at Busy Bee Tools

CX701 12” x 28” Metal Lathe with Digital Read Out - Craftex CX-Series This new CX-Series Metal Lathe is has the features a serious turner would be looking for. Features include a powerful 1.5HP motor, a large 1.5” spindle bore digital variable speed readout, gear box transmission, precision...

www.busybeetools.com

it is 12 x 28 - its a bit small all around but it has almost certainly bigger bore and no issues with threading metric. You would need to make a stand for it.

You can always get my "old" lathe - https://www.busybeetools.com/products/metal-lathe-600mm-with-stand.html
This is also 4600 - like 6 years ago it was exactly half that price (!!!)
Comes with a stand, it is generally forum liked machine BUT it has change gears for threading - its a bit of a pain.

If you were in Calgary I may have soon for sale almost brand new 11x 26 (modern tool) with all accessories and stand for just 2500.

So based on all this I think price of 4000 without almost any tooling beyond standard stuff is too much.

Heck in Calgary a modern lathes that were I believe 14 x 40 sold for around $5000 and I would gladly upgrade to these machines over this 12x36 - which is OLD and smaller for just 1000 extra. And I was saying that $5000 is not exactly a deal for them either (they were 20 year old).

 

[BaitMaster]

I’m in Taber, so I’m about a quarter tank of diesel away from Calgary. It seems a bit high to me too.

I watched and was going to bid on those 14x40 moderns but the prices got out of control quickly.

Ideally, one of those C0636A machines is what I have my eye on. This guy was in Lethbridge, so I went to have a look.

I’ve heard SM makes a good machine, but I know that one is super old and not even a 20 year current model.

I restored an old motorcycle, and became well acquainted with lack of available parts, and don’t particularly feel like engaging in that struggle again.

Might have to pass on this one I guess.

I’ll do some reading on the 11x26 modern. Might be into it, send me a pm if you sell.

 

[combustable herbage]

I recently purchased the 10 inch version which looks almost the same just smaller and I am very happy with it the quality in the machine is there. I agree the price is high and you might have to let it sit for a bit, if its still there in a week or 2 and not much interest he will soften his firm stance. I wish you luck in your search, as its been said before you want quality, fast and cheap, usually you only get 2.

 

[Xyphota]

Is there an advertisement for this somewhere? I didn't see it on Kijiji or Marketplace

 

[Brent H]

The line pointed at - is that scoring? The circled area where the tail stock slides looks rather poor?

I have all the conversion details to convert to metric for these lathes. There is a yoke assembly that fits to the gearbox and a couple gears required- i drew a bunch of stuff up in CAD from military manuals and looking at other lathes that had been converted.

My Miss metric Utilathe has a metric lead screw and the feed screws are metric as well. All are dimensions Imperial however. - like a 7/8” x 4 mm pitch or 1/2” x 2.5 mm pitch.
The gear conversion is a bit more complicated but probably the easiest after machining the parts is done. You just need to change gears.

I would put the Utilathes 10/12 and the older 11/13 in about the $1500 to $3000 category (condition dependant) - additional tooling like taper attachment, follow and Steady rests would add more value -
Same for a lot of additional tooling and chucks.

You need to make your own parts or break the bank if you source new (they make you the part custom) so it is important to make sure things are working properly and gears are running smoothly. Best indicator is the smallest gear - run at 50 RPM and see how noisy things are. This gear is machined into the drive shaft and probably runs the most often.

Older transition models went from set screw adjusted gibs to taper gibs - some times a mix on the cross and compound feeds.

 

[Mcgyver]

I’ve heard SM makes a good machine, but I know that one is super old and not even a 20 year current model.

I restored an old motorcycle, and became well acquainted with lack of available parts, and don’t particularly feel like engaging in that struggle again.

They were significantly better made than today's offshore stuff, however whether it is still better depends on condition. In other words it might of started off better, but is it still? I'm doubting it. Brent has spotted some interesting stuff. It really does come down to condition/wear as to whether that is really overpriced or a great deal. Brent is also in Ontario where the livin's easy, and the lathes are cheap

20 years btw is nothing for lathe, if was well cared for and constantly lubricated.

As for parts, what parts? I've reconditioned several lathes, have a dozen and fixed and sold more.....never once have parts been an issue (unless one busts castings, but who does that?). There is just very little that isn't fairly easy to make or a commercial item. Its easy to be wrong making generalizations, but that has been my experience.

Me, I'd keeping looking. They are a great lathe, but I'd rather pay more for one in amazing shape with lots of tooling or a small fraction of that and recondition it (remove the wear). But you're they guy ground who can assess condition and wear.

 

[Tom Kitta]

I’m in Taber, so I’m about a quarter tank of diesel away from Calgary. It seems a bit high to me too.

I watched and was going to bid on those 14x40 moderns but the prices got out of control quickly.

Ideally, one of those C0636A machines is what I have my eye on. This guy was in Lethbridge, so I went to have a look.

I’ve heard SM makes a good machine, but I know that one is super old and not even a 20 year current model.

I restored an old motorcycle, and became well acquainted with lack of available parts, and don’t particularly feel like engaging in that struggle again.

Might have to pass on this one I guess.

I’ll do some reading on the 11x26 modern. Might be into it, send me a pm if you sell.

C0636A is 14x40 machine. The auction machines were 20 year old and not current model (current model is touch different) but close enough to be current. The price they went for was not by any means a deal - but they did not go for anything outrageous as well - they went for OK price - maybe touch high.

They were significantly better made than today's offshore stuff, however whether it is still better depends on condition. In other words it might of started off better, but is it still? I'm doubting it. Brent has spotted some interesting stuff. It really does come down to condition/wear as to whether that is really overpriced or a great deal. Brent is also in Ontario where the livin's easy, and the lathes are cheap

20 years btw is nothing for lathe, if was well cared for and constantly lubricated.

As for parts, what parts? I've reconditioned several lathes, have a dozen and fixed and sold more.....never once have parts been an issue (unless one busts castings, but who does that?). There is just very little that isn't fairly easy to make or a commercial item. Its easy to be wrong making generalizations, but that has been my experience.

Me, I'd keeping looking. They are a great lathe, but I'd rather pay more for one in amazing shape with lots of tooling or a small fraction of that and recondition it (remove the wear). But you're they guy ground who can assess condition and wear.

Well, my new big lathe is upgrade to my old big lathe. Sure the TOS made lathe was good when new but it was used for decades in a commercial setup and has clear wear marks on the ways. Gap is missing. Sure all speeds work great but a decent Taiwan made lathe that is new or almost new would do circles around it. Heck, the shop I was in replaced this with a touch smaller (bed wise) lathe from Taiwan (!)

As for parts, sure one can make anything - but some things require skills that may not be available or tools that are not handy. For some "quality" old iron parts can be out of this world expensive. Thus relatively modern lathe from say modern tools that has Taiwan made parts can be a good solution - parts are available and cheap. Remember the more expensive original price the more expensive parts - not to mention the older it is, the more parts are. So you may look at a small part price that is >>> lathe value.

 

[Tom Kitta]

The line pointed at - is that scoring? The circled area where the tail stock slides looks rather poor?

Almost certainly it is the wear mark - it is a used tool - it has wear. Lathes are consumables - same as any other tool - or say a car. Sure you can renew a lathe by scraping it in - new ways --- same as you can rebuild and engine - but it seems its not done too often these days.

 

[BaitMaster]

Thanks for the input guys. You guys know a heck of a lot more about it then I do. Ya, If it was cheaper ide probably hop on it but for slightly more I could’ve got a 1440 with available parts….. maybe if he comes down on price….. it probably would be a good lathe though. Valid input from all around.

 

[BaitMaster]

So…. Resurrecting this thread from the dead…. But also resurrecting myself after a long busy season at work….

I texted this guy ( owner of this utilathe) as I STILL want a lathe and mill and haven’t found one quite to my liking yet.

I said to him how we were far apart on the pricing the last time (April) and asked if he had softened his high numbers and if he had if I could come and look at the machines again….

So I’m going. I will inspect in detail the problems with the photos circled by Brent H…. And have read the manual on how to test the power feeds….

I will also bring Allen keys to open the headstock.

Any other tips and tricks to help a fella buy a lathe?

We tentatively talked pricing and the deal is significantly better then the pricing the last time. He has an older round column mill as well that I’m going to try to work into the deal.

Round column not the best I guess but for me it would be pretty sweet to have the two on a package deal.

Major upgrade for me from the welder, 2 angle grinders, and the Chinese drill press.

Any tips or a list of what you guys would check additional to what was listed above would be appreciated.

 

[BaitMaster]

@Brent H I might need those CAD drawings for the gears…. Time will tell.

 

[Six O Two]

Feels high for what he's asking. Here's one to keep in mind, re: pricing, and it's at a dealer. Might involve a weekend trip to the coast to pick it up, but it's still coming in at half the price for a newer model.

Standard Modern UtiLathe

208V 3 Phase

www.coastmachinery.com

 

[BaitMaster]

@Six O Two thanks for the ammunition