Shipping woes and options

[Dabbler]

I'm not getting them. I refuse to buy anything shipped by UPS. I always buy on the card that has an explicit clause that lets me back down the entire transaction if it arrives by UPS (and I refuse the shipment). I won't even give UPS a single dollar any more. I've been screwed too many times. A lifetime's worth.

 

[DavidR8]

I'm not getting them. I refuse to buy anything shipped by UPS. I always buy on the card that has an explicit clause that lets me back down the entire transaction if it arrives by UPS (and I refuse the shipment). I won't even give UPS a single dollar any more. I've been screwed too many times. A lifetime's worth.

Which card provides that?

 

[Tom O]

UPS sent me a bill once after delivery I never did pay it.

 

[140mower]

I'm not getting them. I refuse to buy anything shipped by UPS. I always buy on the card that has an explicit clause that lets me back down the entire transaction if it arrives by UPS (and I refuse the shipment). I won't even give UPS a single dollar any more. I've been screwed too many times. A lifetime's worth.

I am so with you on this sentiment...... It's not often that someone or something lights the burning fire of hatred within me as UPS has..... I really don't understand how they can still offer services in Canada, given what those services entail......

 

[PeterT]

If you take delivery of something via UPS/couriers & the dinger bill comes a week later as it often does, you basically owe them the money. They will chase you down. I've also heard from someone he was put on the naughty list for this which adversely affected future orders. It is irritating. I go through great pains beforehand as to how its arriving. And although the flavors of dinger fees & customer service vary, the other couriers are much the same. I bought some items from Shars via Fedex Ground. Perfect delivery but same deal, the charges to assess the box of duty free air arrived a week later. If you have an account there may be some line item reductions & payment options, but basically same deal. Interestingly on my last order, they linked my name to my account & I got e-notification that way vs a bill in the mail.

 

[Dabbler]

My BOM Mastercard has a clause that allows for vendor malfesance, which includes non-delivery of goods. Since the delivery is not as agreed, the onus is on the vendor to ship correctly. Since the shipment was not as agreed, it is the same as if the vendor shipped the wrong item and it was returned. It still is a non-delivery. I've only had to use this clause once in many years. Every time they change the cardholder agreement, I make sure that this clause has the same effect.

NOTE: in the case of an accepted shipment, there is an argument that the fees as invoiced are due, based on the aspect of an accepted delivery. One could make the argument that the item is boxed and ready for pickup, as, based on the notice invoice, this is now a refused shipment. You have to make it clear at *the very first contact* that the signature has been revoked. It is not clear that this argument will hold absolutely in small claims court. But it should have at least equal weight as the argument that you accepted the shipment *blind of the invoice*.

-- one downside of digital documents is than you cannot annotate them, unlike a paper contract. I have often taken a contract, 'striked' out a clause and initialed it, then offered it to the other party to initial. This has the effect of nullifying that clause if initialed and you get a copy of the contract. In a paper world, I always strike any invoice clauses, demanding an accounting up front before accepting.

 

[jcdammeyer]

I was conned by FedEx a couple of weeks ago. Seems that if the value for Customs is X and the Shipment Value is X the sender then agrees that the Shipment value requires Insurance at a hefty price. It's not quoted at the time the waybill is created. Shows up as a transaction several weeks later after the shipment is safely delivered.

 

[Former Member]

For all to learn, UPS World Wide Expedited includes brokerage lesser, cheaper services don't. The same goes goes for all the other services out there.

 

[PeterT]

For all to learn, UPS World Wide Expedited includes brokerage lesser, cheaper services don't. The same goes goes for all the other services out there.

I feel like this comes up often, But isn't UPSWW Expedited significantly more expensive than their other shipping modes? Seems to me when I looked at the fee schedules it was something like:
Regular shipping $10ship + $35fees = $45 total
Expedited = 42$total (no added fees)
Net Savings = 45 - 42 = 3 (+/- shipping time, account discount & a few other potential perks).
I'm just making up a bogus example but this roughly is how I recall the math.
Can you do a real world example using their fee schedule to corroborate, or maybe I am missing something fundamental.

 

[StevSmar]

We need some legislation which says shipping estimates need to include brokerage fees.

I’m Ok with paying GST on my orders, but it irks me when the “Brokerage Fee” is three or four times what the GST is. I’m sure the vendor would have picked another shipper if they knew the total cost.

 

[PeterT]

Its a good thought but I wouldn't hold my breath. These fees are within the domain of shippers who are a separate business between us & the vendor & determined to make it as profitable as possible. And they have to comply with Federal customs & taxation. But arguably expensive for what they actually do. I want a job where I can charge $45 to print a label saying 0$ duty applicable thousands of times a day. GST is yet another skim. The vendor responsibility ends with filling the box with goodies, offers mode A,B,C leaving it to you to figure the rest out (usually by painful experience). How about free trade? Or anything under $500 is zero regardless. Nothing to collect, no fees, just transportation. I already know the answer because zero does not slipstream revenue into our friendly government.

Now what is truly magical is ordering an item from China, pay zero shipping, have it arrive to your mailbox in 2 weeks with nothing owing, sometimes via an address in Toronto. I don't want to jinx it. But somewhere between subsidization & working the system, its saving me hobby dollars.

 

[Former Member]

I ship a lot out of country, the shipper needs to negotiate the rates and know what to ask for.

My negotiated rate is less than the published rate standard service with tail end brokerage included (and significantly faster).

For my customers I also shop my shipping if it seems out of line as various countries are sometimes serviced less expensive by other services. Mind you I make and sell high dollar value items to a select clients and do this as service for them.

So yes it can be done but it takes a little extra effort by the vendor.

@David_R8 knows when I helped him get better rates even within Canada earlier this year, by picking up and shipping instead of the vendor. There are solutions you just got to find them.

 

[Former Member]

Its a good thought but I wouldn't hold my breath. These fees are within the domain of shippers who are a separate business between us & the vendor & determined to make it as profitable as possible. And they have to comply with Federal customs & taxation. But arguably expensive for what they actually do. I want a job where I can charge $45 to print a label saying 0$ duty applicable thousands of times a day. GST is yet another skim. The vendor responsibility ends with filling the box with goodies, offers mode A,B,C leaving it to you to figure the rest out (usually by painful experience). How about free trade? Or anything under $500 is zero regardless. Nothing to collect, no fees, just transportation. I already know the answer because zero does not slipstream revenue into our friendly government.

Now what is truly magical is ordering an item from China, pay zero shipping, have it arrive to your mailbox in 2 weeks with nothing owing, sometimes via an address in Toronto. I don't want to jinx it. But somewhere between subsidization & working the system, its saving me hobby dollars.

Its a similar system outbound by piggybacking on larger accounts with shipping services.

 

[PeterT]

I ship a lot out of country, the shipper needs to negotiate the rates and know what to ask for.
My negotiated rate is less than the published rate standard service with tail end brokerage included (and significantly faster).
For my customers I also shop my shipping if it seems out of line as various countries are sometimes serviced less expensive by other services. Mind you I make and sell high dollar value items.... to a select clients and do this as service for them. So yes it can be done but it takes a little extra effort by the vendor.
...There are solutions you just got to find them.

Yes, you have mentioned 3rd party shippers before. Again, if recall, ended up being what I would call moderate discount over mainstream methods. When I input numbers into their rate calculators it was only marginally better. Whenever it crosses borders, someone has to process it through customs, either paying duty & taxes on your behalf or otherwise clearing it for you to pay after the fact. Its had to imagine they would do this for free, but if they do it for $10 instead of $45 I'm interested.

My conclusion, at least from the 3rd party links you provided last time, was savings was more related to aspects of your BUSINESS - shipping volume, rate negotiation. larger volume accounts or whatever. Its great that you do this & savings flow through to the business bottom line, but we are talking about receiving goods (as in onsey-twosey) from USA to a regular individual, simple as that. Not shipping goods from Canada outbound related to a business.

But back to your statement For all to learn, UPS World Wide Expedited includes brokerage lesser, cheaper services don't. The same goes goes for all the other services out there.
Can you show us an example using UPS price schedules how everyday Joe can save money using UPS-WWE vs. other modes importing an item from USA?

 

[DavidR8]

Yes, you have mentioned 3rd party shippers before. Again, if recall, ended up being what I would call moderate discount over mainstream methods. When I input numbers into their rate calculators it was only marginally better. Whenever it crosses borders, someone has to process it through customs, either paying duty & taxes on your behalf or otherwise clearing it for you to pay after the fact. Its had to imagine they would do this for free, but if they do it for $10 instead of $45 I'm interested.

My conclusion, at least from the 3rd party links you provided last time, was savings was more related to aspects of your BUSINESS - shipping volume, rate negotiation. larger volume accounts or whatever. Its great that you do this & savings flow through to the business bottom line, but we are talking about receiving goods (as in onsey-twosey) from USA to a regular individual, simple as that. Not shipping goods from Canada outbound related to a business.

But back to your statement For all to learn, UPS World Wide Expedited includes brokerage lesser, cheaper services don't. The same goes goes for all the other services out there.
Can you show us an example using UPS price schedules how everyday Joe can save money using UPS-WWE vs. other modes importing an item from USA?

When @Degen shipped my chuck from ON to BC it was about 1/2 the quoted price from the vendor.

 

[Former Member]

Yes, you have mentioned 3rd party shippers before. Again, if recall, ended up being what I would call moderate discount over mainstream methods. When I input numbers into their rate calculators it was only marginally better. Whenever it crosses borders, someone has to process it through customs, either paying duty & taxes on your behalf or otherwise clearing it for you to pay after the fact. Its had to imagine they would do this for free, but if they do it for $10 instead of $45 I'm interested.

My conclusion, at least from the 3rd party links you provided last time, was savings was more related to aspects of your BUSINESS - shipping volume, rate negotiation. larger volume accounts or whatever. Its great that you do this & savings flow through to the business bottom line, but we are talking about receiving goods (as in onsey-twosey) from USA to a regular individual, simple as that. Not shipping goods from Canada outbound related to a business.

But back to your statement For all to learn, UPS World Wide Expedited includes brokerage lesser, cheaper services don't. The same goes goes for all the other services out there.
Can you show us an example using UPS price schedules how everyday Joe can save money using UPS-WWE vs. other modes importing an item from USA?

Shiptime, netparcel, etc, approx typically 50 to 70% off list price.

Fun as it sounds to do for you you need to do the work to gain the benefit and actually see that it works.

 

[PeterT]

When @Degen shipped my chuck from ON to BC it was about 1/2 the quoted price from the vendor.

2 potential differences here David.
1) ON to BC is 100% inside Canada so there is no cross border customs processing issues involved, which is kind of the discussion point of these particular items & getting things from USA in general
2) Quoted price from vendor. What does that mean exactly? Its common practice to bury fees inside 'shipping'. Some break it down to 'packaging' + 'shipping' and/or let you choose the the shipper. Others embed it in the cost as a hidden revenue source: Box=$3, wrap=$1, Fedex=23$, Total=$27. Lets charge them $35 & pocket the $8. See what I mean?

 

[PeterT]

Shiptime, netparcel, etc, approx typically 50 to 70% off list price.

Fun as it sounds to do for you you need to do the work to gain the benefit and actually see that it works.

No need to be snarky. I've done the work based on your links from prior discussions. I still don't understand the claimed ALL IN savings. That's my point, what am I missing? I entered a made up example. Indeed the 15.30 USD compares favorably to other services using same dimension & weight. Its not 70% lower, but its lower. But this is my point, where does it show me their customs processing fees? Are you saying its free or that comes later as a cost add when you create an account? Or is that borne by the customer & therefore they don't include? This kind of looks like a transportation component. You can find this as a line item on a UPS or Fedex statement too. It might be $20 but the customs processing is say $40, total = $60. So why focus on $20 when that is only a component of ALL IN total? Does this make sense to you? I'm not sure I can make it any clearer.

Strangely its not asking for $ value up front which other shippers require because it feeds various Fed/Prov dinger fees. Does that come later filing out form? Why does it have all the common shippers listed on the bottom? Is the business model they are somehow getting preferred shipping through (ie the exact same) shippers & passing that on to customers ...AND still managing to make a profit? I mean I really don't care, savings are savings but it just strikes me as odd.

appears at bottom of web page

 

[Former Member]

The less expensive services from UPS (and all others) do not included brokerage, but at a certain level they do ie UPSWWE.

Retail rates from Canada to USA for one of the shipments I do.

Standard $100 plus 40-60 brokerage.
WWE $450 no brokage.

High volume discounts you can obtain thru someone like Netparcel is about

Standard $75
WWE $140

So the price is almost equal and you are not getting brokerage fees.

Taxes and tariffs if applicable well that's a whole other discussion.

Now I have a commercial UPS account with great rates however for some international shipments I still use 3rd party booking services for the best rate. Again in this case the best UPS price $650.00, thru third party FEDEX $260.00. Likely a non UPS serviced area.

Shop around, buy beware, Cheapest is not always cheapest.

I have give several examples and details like this in other threads on this forum.

 

[PeterT]

Retail rates from Canada to USA for one of the shipments I do.

Standard $100 plus 40-60 brokerage.
WWE $450 no brokage.

I still don't understand your math, what am I missing?
100 + 60 = 160 total Standard
450 + 0 = 450 total WWE
160 < 450