A few weeks ago I posted a WTB ad for an Emco Super 11. Today I received a message from a relatively new member named robert_robert with a lead on a lathe. A name and e-mail address was provided.
A little back ground, I have been looking for one of these lathes for quite some time and have probably seen every ad for every lathe that has been posted in the last couple of years. You get pretty good at spotting scams when you have dedicated this much time to it.
I contacted the person via email, with a couple questions and a request for some photos. He responded within a couple hours with a description of the lathe and some photos. I recognized the lathe immediately as it was one that I had considered purchasing but ultimately passed on. I decided to waste a bit of this guys time with MANY questions and requests. He first said the lathe was in NY, being close I told him I wanted to come see it. He said he made a mistake and the lathe was in Texas near Dallas, I said "this is crazy, I am going to be in Dallas next week for work and would have time to come and see it". At this point he said he would prefer to ship the lathe to me to inspect it and I could pay him after if I wanted it, all I would have to do is send him money to cover shipping. I told him I would gladly send the money for shipping if he would send a photo of a hand written note with the date and time along with the e-mail address for the transfer on it in front of the lathe. I got the don't you trust me, I would never rip you off speil. At this point 3 hours have passed and I let the cat out of the bag. No surprise, have not heard from him since.
I don't know why the scammers have infiltrated the machine tool market (maybe we are a gullible bunch) but they are here.
A few oberservations and tips for spotting a scam:
Asking price on scam ads has shifted from deal of a lifetime to a reasonable if not high price.
When scam ads are posted there seam to be many at one time, then you do not see any for a few weeks then they return again.
Scam ads shift around from area to area, the ad will be posted here in Ontario then it will pop up somewhere out west
They also shift around between cities in each geographic location
They are usually posted on an account that is new, does not have any activity, photos, friends etc on it
There are far more scam ads on Marketplace than Kijiji
Scam ad descriptions are: poorly written, often vague, free of any jargon, have very bad spelling and grammar, describe items improperly or are overly descriptive with a cut and paste description from a manufacturers website
They often contain a reason for selling like "bought x and did not suit needs so now selling to buy item y"
Ads are often for machines that are not readily available or common in this area ie: Grizzly and Precision Matthews
When I look at the provided photos, I look at other things in the photo as well. An ad for a Grizzly lathe with a Pittsburg engine crane and a Habour Freight saw and drill press in the background is most likely a scam as all these items are not prevalent in Canada. Look for anything in the background of the photos that would suggest they are not from your area (palm trees in the background). Do a reverse look up on the provided photos. Keep ads in your saved items or save screen shots to refer back to. Look for congruency in the ad, if ad suggest machine is in a basement shop but photos are in a garage or industrial setting it may be a scam. Look for things that would indicate a time line, if the photo is suppose to be recent but has a stubby Labatt Blue bottle in it something may be wrong. Ask questions that you and a real seller would know the answers too but a scammer would not, ie what is the spindle bore size and tailstock taper.
if it too good to be true it most likely is,
there is psychological effect where we project our own traits on others, if you are trustworthy, you expect that others are as well. If you are a person that screws over others you feel like others are always on the ready to screw you over. If you belong to the former, BE CAUTIOUS!
Never send money without verified proof, period. If you choose to send money, never send more than you can live without. I have reluctantly transferred money in the past. My rule is a follows, if the amount is great enough that it will haunt me for more than a couple months if I lose it, then I will not send it.
Make transactions in person in a safe location when possible
Creep the person prior to making any deals, a person selling hobby machine tools will usually have an online foot print
I am sure there are many more tells,
A little back ground, I have been looking for one of these lathes for quite some time and have probably seen every ad for every lathe that has been posted in the last couple of years. You get pretty good at spotting scams when you have dedicated this much time to it.
I contacted the person via email, with a couple questions and a request for some photos. He responded within a couple hours with a description of the lathe and some photos. I recognized the lathe immediately as it was one that I had considered purchasing but ultimately passed on. I decided to waste a bit of this guys time with MANY questions and requests. He first said the lathe was in NY, being close I told him I wanted to come see it. He said he made a mistake and the lathe was in Texas near Dallas, I said "this is crazy, I am going to be in Dallas next week for work and would have time to come and see it". At this point he said he would prefer to ship the lathe to me to inspect it and I could pay him after if I wanted it, all I would have to do is send him money to cover shipping. I told him I would gladly send the money for shipping if he would send a photo of a hand written note with the date and time along with the e-mail address for the transfer on it in front of the lathe. I got the don't you trust me, I would never rip you off speil. At this point 3 hours have passed and I let the cat out of the bag. No surprise, have not heard from him since.
I don't know why the scammers have infiltrated the machine tool market (maybe we are a gullible bunch) but they are here.
A few oberservations and tips for spotting a scam:
Asking price on scam ads has shifted from deal of a lifetime to a reasonable if not high price.
When scam ads are posted there seam to be many at one time, then you do not see any for a few weeks then they return again.
Scam ads shift around from area to area, the ad will be posted here in Ontario then it will pop up somewhere out west
They also shift around between cities in each geographic location
They are usually posted on an account that is new, does not have any activity, photos, friends etc on it
There are far more scam ads on Marketplace than Kijiji
Scam ad descriptions are: poorly written, often vague, free of any jargon, have very bad spelling and grammar, describe items improperly or are overly descriptive with a cut and paste description from a manufacturers website
They often contain a reason for selling like "bought x and did not suit needs so now selling to buy item y"
Ads are often for machines that are not readily available or common in this area ie: Grizzly and Precision Matthews
When I look at the provided photos, I look at other things in the photo as well. An ad for a Grizzly lathe with a Pittsburg engine crane and a Habour Freight saw and drill press in the background is most likely a scam as all these items are not prevalent in Canada. Look for anything in the background of the photos that would suggest they are not from your area (palm trees in the background). Do a reverse look up on the provided photos. Keep ads in your saved items or save screen shots to refer back to. Look for congruency in the ad, if ad suggest machine is in a basement shop but photos are in a garage or industrial setting it may be a scam. Look for things that would indicate a time line, if the photo is suppose to be recent but has a stubby Labatt Blue bottle in it something may be wrong. Ask questions that you and a real seller would know the answers too but a scammer would not, ie what is the spindle bore size and tailstock taper.
if it too good to be true it most likely is,
there is psychological effect where we project our own traits on others, if you are trustworthy, you expect that others are as well. If you are a person that screws over others you feel like others are always on the ready to screw you over. If you belong to the former, BE CAUTIOUS!
Never send money without verified proof, period. If you choose to send money, never send more than you can live without. I have reluctantly transferred money in the past. My rule is a follows, if the amount is great enough that it will haunt me for more than a couple months if I lose it, then I will not send it.
Make transactions in person in a safe location when possible
Creep the person prior to making any deals, a person selling hobby machine tools will usually have an online foot print
I am sure there are many more tells,
