Rockwell 11" Lathe

[EricB]

So a while back (late October I believe) I picked up my first lathe! I know some others on here had seen it on Kijiji as well, it's an 11" Rockwell.

I must have done a good job of re-framing the ceiling, because I had a piece of very solid aluminum channel resting on two rafters in the ceiling with a 1/2ton chain-hoist hung from it and it lifted this 850 lbs. lathe out of the back of my truck and set it down on blocks without even a creak. The guy I bought it from didn't really know much about lathes at all, he owns a water-jetting company, but he was able to tell me that it basically sat unused for at least 15 years. It turned under it's own power so I started looking it over and realizing that nothing on it seemed to be working. Gear-box arms didn't want to move back and forth, half-nuts didn't want to engage, and then when they did they didn't want to disengage...

BUT I had done a ton of research on this lathe, it's a super solid little unit that had a ton of really nice options (this is the base model, no flame-hardened ways, no L0 spindle with collet chuck, no taper attachment) and the price was right.

Got it home and it sat for quite a while since I've been busy with other things, but I finally started tearing into it the other day. Pulled off the quick-change gear-box, and the carriage/apron assembly. Nothing wanted to move freely, everything was filthy, and there was one broken shaft:

Believe it or not there are brass parts in this picture! The shaft doesn't worry me, I'll machine and heat treat a new one while I'm in school next month. Thankfully I have access to a solvent tank, so some quick work made things look a bit nicer...

Like magic! Everything moves, the gears all look brand-new, I tightened a couple of set-screws on the handle of the half-nuts and they work great! The next step is one I'm not overly looking forward to though, it's time to clean up the drive-system (has a variable speed system run by sheaves) and the spindle. A buddy of mine is supposed to lend me his solvent tank which would be a god-send since it would save the hassle of having to haul heavy parts to and from the other one. Anyways, as with everything I do this is going to be a bit of a longer-term project. I have too much else on the go all the time (machining for some friends' Lotus projects, gotta hang, hook-up, and vent the heater, tons of holiday stuff with friends and family...) but I'll keep you guys updated. The overall plan is to get it clean and running smoothly, then when I have time I'd love to do a full tear-down and paint it.

 

[Jyman]

That's a nice looking lathe. And It's amazing what a little clean up will do to a drive train. A lotus project, what kind of lotus is it?

 

[PeterT]

I have a lot of respect for people who take on TLC refurb jobs in the heavy machinery department. Your parts look amazingly nice when cleaned up. I hope its a case of low use dormant sludge. From what I've read on forums, belt drive is actually nice to have. They run a bit quieter & smoother vs. gearhead & guys are retrofitting reasonable $ motor/VFD combo packages to give lots of speed range utility.

 

[EricB]

Thanks, @Jyman! Yeah, just cleaning this thing up is making a world of difference. The Lotus projects are called a Locost 7. Here's some info on and a picture of one, and a link for the other:

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16618&start=60

1.6 litre DOHC from an 89 Toyota Corolla GTS
carbs from a Suzuki GSXR
Supra 5 speed
diff from an 86 Toyota Corolla GST
front spindles and brakes from 87 Toyota Van
seats from an early Miata

@PeterT thanks, that means a lot! Yeah, it's a variable speed system using drive belts and sheaves, so it can already go between 50RPM (geared) and 1500RPM (direct drive) with a regular motor hooked up to either 110V or 220V. It's going to be a wonderful little lathe to run with it just being cleaned up, but I really would love to restore it to it's former glory and make it something I can really show-off in the garage. Looks like some ham-fisted putz ran the carriage into the chuck a lot more than once, so there is some damage but it's mainly aesthetic (I'd still like to fix that up someday too)

I'll be on the lookout for accessories for it once I have a little cash again! I'd love to replace the spindle with the L0 and have the ability to use collets, the taper-attachment would be awesome too, and the follower-steady would be on the list as well. *Sigh* some day. For now I'll have to keep it to necessary things. Speaking of necessary: It's time for new belts. Merry X-mas, little Rockwell! 2016 is going to be your year to shine!

 

[John Conroy]

Way to go Eric. That's a nice machine. My lathe was in similar condition when I got it. It came out of a furniture manufacturing business and was covered with upholstery glue and sawdust. It was a great feeling to get it all cleaned up and running. Have fun!

John

 

[Matt_b_m]

Ah yes! The 4A-GE!! That's awesome. I remember way back I used to have a Tercel wagon, with the 3A. I remember dreaming of finding the 4A-GE and doing a transplant! If i remember right, the A code blocks and transmissions mated, which would have really made the 4wd Tercel wagon a real blast!

Eric, you've inspired me to clean up the old lathe I picked up this week. I have been going slow at it, but I think i should really tear it down and go over it with a fine tooth comb. I'll capture some before and afters.

 

[EricB]

@John Conroy Thanks! I'm already having fun, and I'm not even machining yet. You won't be able to beat the grin off my face when the first part comes off of it!

@Matt_b_m Haha that first bit was all gibberish to me, I just cut metal for those guys. What they're doing is beyond me. Definitely clean up your lathe! Machines are so much happier when they're clean (what I always used to tell customers when I was a bike mechanic) everything just works better. You should for sure get some photos and either make a thread or post them here, I'd love to see them.

Does anyone know if you can use link belts with CVT sheaves? I know they're supposed to be a great way to replace v-belts, but I don't know about using them for my primary drive...

 

[PeterT]

Is this the speed changer or what am I looking at here?
What kind of spindle nose does it have?
You mentioned collets one day, do you mean just getting a collet chuck & set or one of those collet closer thingy's?

 

[EricB]

@PeterT The lever you posted there is to switch between Direct Drive, Loose Spindle, Locked Spindle, and In Gear (low RPMs) The speed select lever looks like this:

(not a photo of mine, just Google Image Search) it operates this system:

(again, not my photo) so that jack-shaft moves up and down with those two adjustable sheaves on it to change the drive-ratio.

 

[EricB]

Sorry @PeterT I forgot about the second part of your comment. I currently have a threaded spindle that accepts threaded chucks. It's a decent system, but it's old and it makes turning in reverse very dangerous since the chuck could just unscrew and come off. There was an option available on these lathes (at no extra cost apparently!!) to get an L00 spindle, which is a tapered spindle with a key on it. It accepts chucks with a ground taper in them, is very precise, and allows the use of collets mounted directly in the spindle (no chuck) which is very useful for a variety of reasons (holds VERY tight, reduces vibration, doesn't mark the surface of whatever it's holding, ultra-precise, allows for extremely quick changes or advances of material being machined...)

I can't find a photo of the threaded spindle (I'll try to remember to take a shot of mine when I have a chance) but here's one of the L00 spindle. There's one on eBay right now, but money is too tight to justify it (don't judge me if I cry)

 

[Jyman]

Oh i know the locost 7 very well, I started building one when I was in high school that would be about 13 years ago. I wish I would have got to finish it, my parents moved to the states just after I finished high school and had to sell it, I always wondered what happened to the car

 

[EricB]

After some research it sounds like my drive system is called a Reeves drive? Since it's not a speed-actuated CVT. Still not sure about the belts though.

Sent from my B15 using Tapatalk

 

[John Conroy]

Eric, link belts were never intended for continuous service. They were originally designed and marketed for emergency repairs and have two advantages over V-belts. Machine down time is minimized. And spares stockage is reduced. On the other hand, they have several disadvantages. They cost more (unless you buy cheap Chinese). They are not reversible. Their load rating is about 1/3 that of the equivalent V-belt. They stretch. And they are more prone to slippage. The only case where a link belt runs better than a V-belt is when you use a brand new link belt to replace a 70 year-old V-belt that should have been changed 50 years ago.

 

[EricB]

@John Conroy yeah, I know they were meant for temporary fixes, but a lot of guys who restore older equipment swear by them saying they improve power a bit, and reduce vibration a lot. The vibration reduction especially drew my attention on a lathe, but you're right, I forgot they can't run in reverse. Like I said, with the threaded chuck I doubt I'll run in reverse much, but it'd be good to have the option. Sucks that I have to pull the spindle to get the new belts on, but such is life.

I do plan on using link belts on the drill-press when the time comes though, I'd like to see if what others say is true.

 

[John Conroy]

Hey Eric, if you want to make that shaft sooner than next month you are welcome to use my lathe and mill.

 

[EricB]

John, if I can find some time I will definitely take you up on that! I'd like to see your shop sometime, you have some nice machines. Unfortunately 'tis the season to be busy, fa-la-la-lala la-la Time's booked.

Seems like the only things holding me back from getting Rocky running smoothly are the belts, the shaft, and the long-overdue lubricating and adjustments that this machine require. Oh, and I'd like to find some nice levelling-feet for it as well.

 

[sorrelcreek]

Just level the lathe with some shims than your first project on her can be making some nice leveling pads. She looks like it will be a great lathe omce you get it running. If you need any help with a shafts let me know won't take much to machine a new one.

 

[EricB]

@sorrelcreek thanks for the offer! Yeah, it won't take much to machine at all, I could do it at my work, but if I go in for a 15 minute side job I come out 2 hours later (the manager gets bored and chatty) and since I have other work to do on it right now that shaft can wait until last.

I could definitely make some leveling feet, but I have other projects for myself and others so it's pretty tempting to just buy something and get it going. If I am just going with simple leveling feet I'll make them, but I'm pretty tempted to go with something like these guys here:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2P80S-2-Leve...lb-Capacity-/111508071642?hash=item19f66624da

They're made in China of course, but they're rated plenty high for my purpose and the ease of moving the machine around would be fantastic especially since I'm not finished working on the garage itself yet. I can move it in other ways of course, but I have a feeling that if I got a set of these for my lathe they'd soon be on other things as well. Most places that sell them have them priced out of my range, but this ebay store has the same made in china product as all the others for half the price...

 

[EricB]

Wait... how does it go back together again?

...I know all that stuff belongs on there somewhere, but I don't think the cigarette butts and other random gross shit that was under the head-stock does.

But the motor spins like a champ! With new belts this thing will purr like a kitten! (Disclaimer: very boring video to anyone who isn't me. )

 

[EricB]

Well yesterday it was time to get the v-belts out. They actually aren't in bad shape (unlike the vari-speed drive belts) but they're still the OEM belts. With how much you have to take the machine apart to change these belts (headstock has to come off) it's worth it to just do it now and not have any hassles. I'm ordering all Gates brand belts through Motion Canada. Dealt with a guy at the one on 57th ave named Roland and I'm very happy with him so far (so long as he calls me today ) so I'd highly recommend trying them out if any of you guys need to pick something up. The guys at Acklands didn't really seem to want to help me "We don't stock belts here", their website has belts but they didn't mention ordering or anything, and the guy at Greggs was clearly VERY confused by belts. Anyways, Motion Canada. Give them a shot.

Anyways, back to removing the belts. Now that I've beheaded my lathe and the headstock is laying on the floor of my garage I can start the lobotomy. First step is pulling stuff off the back. I've already removed the feed reversing lever and it's components, now for the gear, lockring, spacer, and woodruff key on the spindle, and the lower backgears shaft.

This:

To this:

The reason for those two bolts is that Rockwell actually thought ahead when designing this lathe and made it serviceable! What a cool idea, right?? They even list how to do this whole process step by step in the regular ol' owners' manual! Those bolts get threaded in to that bearing retainer slowly and evenly, and they pull out the whole rear-bearing of the spindle. It's a fantastic design. A lot of guys when talking about these lathes seem to think you have to actually pull the spindle. This is not the case. Just pull the rear bearing for the spindle, move the lower back-gear shaft that's housed in the headstock out of the way by loosening the hex-headed bolt you see here:

Now the belts can slip out through the opening at the back of the spindle:

And then around the spindle, back through the opening, and slip past the lower-shaft and bull-gear. It's a bit of a tight fit I will admit, but even with half-frozen hands I managed to get them out and I'm not too worried about getting the new ones in.

Sorry again for the awful pictures. My CAT phone's camera is pretty lack-lustre. Maybe when I'm able to get some jobs through the garage I'll actually be able to get a decent camera. This weekend I should be picking up the solvent tank my buddy's lending me and then I can clean-up the headstock itself. Once that's done and I have some belts it can start goingack together! In the meantime I bought some kerosene to clean the bed and cabinet a bit, and I might find some time to start figuring out the layout for my heater (long overdue)