Right to Repair

[jcdammeyer]

In this particular case I'm the designer of the boards that were returned to me instead of tossed into scrap. My client asked if I wanted them for spare parts otherwise they were going to be recycled as scrap. The world is so used to trashing electronics that doesn't work they don't even think about potential repair or repurpose.

In this case the reason the 22 units were returned is because they accidentally wired 24V into a 0-10V output pin. By the time they'd figured it out a bunch were trash.

I keep running into electronics devices that do not have schematics or are even designed not to be serviced. Especially the new modern vehicles. Replace for huge amounts of money or junk the car. When I think about my lane change avoidance system which has over the last week or so been flickering the red arrow in the right mirror and on occasions beeping that I'm about to change lanes into someone it's annoying.

When I'm driving along and it does the same thing but thinks I'm actually changing lanes and hits the brakes to help me avoid the 'nothing' then it's dangerous. (I've disabled it for now). It's this sort of thing that has me totally against self driving cars. Yes. They work when they leave the factory. But what about when they are 8 years old like my vehicle which is now doing false alarms.

My two cents...

 

[Susquatch]

@jcdammeyer

I am totally against self driving cars too. Never liked that idea and still don't.

The argument proponents make is that even with errors, it's way better than a poor driver. I think they should both get off the road.

 

[Former Member]

Repair...means investing in instructions and details.

Self driving cars, there are exceptions as an example our son will likely never have a license because of seizure disorder, a self driving car could give the same access that the rest of us take for granted.

 

[PeterT]

I'd rather see self-driving tech applied to other applications of interest: self-reducing taxes/premiums/fees, self-exploding politicians, AI lie detector lenses, self responding ear piercing dial tone to telemarketer calls.... I'm here all night folks, lots more where that came from.

 

[6.5 Fan]

Peter T i like the way you think.

 

[little ol' e]

Oh no, I like 6.5 fans reply^^^ . I can see the rabbit holes from here. I like the way you both think. I will just stay put and keep quiet on this 1 haha.

 

[Susquatch]

I'd rather see self-driving tech applied to other applications of interest: self-reducing taxes/premiums/fees, self-exploding politicians, AI lie detector lenses, self responding ear piercing dial tone to telemarketer calls.... I'm here all night folks, lots more where that came from.

Can I join your fan club too?

 

[Tom O]

How many times have you heard you don’t have $1000,000 liability insurance so you can’t help out your friend/ neighbour but letting your car drive all over hells half acre is the cats ass. I’ll never use one, The last thing I want to hear at my future accident is (Cop) “ Did you try unplugging and plugging it back in!

 

[Former Member]

To be honest, since COVID the quality of drivers has gotten substantially worse, an automated car would better, not great but definitely better than those drivers.

At the least we would expect no brains.

 

[ShawnR]

In this particular case I'm the designer of the boards that were returned to me instead of tossed into scrap. My client asked if I wanted them for spare parts otherwise they were going to be recycled as scrap. The world is so used to trashing electronics that doesn't work they don't even think about potential repair or repurpose.

In this case the reason the 22 units were returned is because they accidentally wired 24V into a 0-10V output pin. By the time they'd figured it out a bunch were trash.

Nice repair @jcdammeyer

A friend (electrician) asked me, recently, to repair a board for him. His daughter's dryer. Small switch on PC board failed so he decided that he should unsolder and resolder. His first question to me was asking if the copper is glued on or something cause it seems to be gone....Yep used too large an iron, foil is gone at switch. He then asked if the board is coated in something, so he did not remove that first....bit of a mess in there.

I am going to confiscate his soldering iron.....

 

[Former Member]

Nice repair @jcdammeyer

A friend (electrician) asked me, recently, to repair a board for him. His daughter's dryer. Small switch on PC board failed so he decided that he should unsolder and resolder. His first question to me was asking if the copper is glued on or something cause it seems to be gone....Yep used too large an iron, foil is gone at switch. He then asked if the board is coated in something, so he did not remove that first....bit of a mess in there.

I am going to confiscate his soldering iron.....

Smart move traces don't like excessive heat.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Nice repair @jcdammeyer

A friend (electrician) asked me, recently, to repair a board for him. His daughter's dryer. Small switch on PC board failed so he decided that he should unsolder and resolder. His first question to me was asking if the copper is glued on or something cause it seems to be gone....Yep used too large an iron, foil is gone at switch. He then asked if the board is coated in something, so he did not remove that first....bit of a mess in there.

I am going to confiscate his soldering iron.....

So were you able to repair it?

 

[Tom O]

@jcdammeyer

I am totally against self driving cars too. Never liked that idea and still don't.

The argument proponents make is that even with errors, it's way better than a poor driver. I think they should both get off the road.

I went to Victoria BC one time and was using the gps after arriving I looked at the stats and found the top speed achieved was 400 some odd mph so I’d like to see a self driving car drive through the mountains and tunnels!

 

[jcdammeyer]

We've drifted off a little bit from my original idea which was about the right to repair things that are considered throw-away. My son's girlfriend bought a used Mercedes B200. It seemed like a good deal. Sold by a doctor who's daughter had moved and it had sat parked for a while.

Anyway, seems the the Engine Control Unit has a problem. I suspect it's a faulty transistor or capacitor. With no schematics it's a very expensive throw away part. So you think, why not pick up a used one at a wrecker for a couple of hundred or so. Well it seems that the engine serial # is programmed into the processor in such a way that you need a special programmer to update that. ie. Pull it apart, clean up some programming pads, press the spring loaded programming pins onto those pads and pull the information, then change the serial # and then reprogram it.

Without that it won't talk to the rest of the car and the car won't start. The dealer will provide a new one ordered from the factory with the correct serial #. For about $2K.

Or it might just be the ignition key. They only have one so they can't try the other one. And again a new key to try, again matched to the vehicle serial #, is expensive. To try and have it not fix the issue they won't do. Although I think having a spare key is a good idea.

The thing is repairing instead of replacing is how I started my career. I'm still repairing things. But I'll also buy new...

 

[Doggggboy]

Still slightly off topic but i heard that a couple of the car manufacturers, (Toyota or BMW I think} will be using a subscription service to enable the seat heaters. Next car I buy will have been made in the 1960s, I swear. Toolkit will be vice grips and a book of matches for the points.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Still slightly off topic but i heard that a couple of the car manufacturers, (Toyota or BMW I think} will be using a subscription service to enable the seat heaters. Next car I buy will have been made in the 1960s, I swear. Toolkit will be vice grips and a book of matches for the points.

BMW but others are looking at the concept too.

 

[Chicken lights]

and a book of matches for the points.

Not many people are going to get that reference, anymore

 

[ShawnR]

So were you able to repair it?

Don't know yet. I think I will be able to. I am into a house reno and part of it involves my room where my workbench is so it is chaos right now. I will report back. Thanks for asking.

 

[ShawnR]

We've drifted off a little bit from my original idea which was about the right to repair things that are considered throw-away. My son's girlfriend bought a used Mercedes B200. It seemed like a good deal. Sold by a doctor who's daughter had moved and it had sat parked for a while.

Anyway, seems the the Engine Control Unit has a problem. I suspect it's a faulty transistor or capacitor. With no schematics it's a very expensive throw away part. So you think, why not pick up a used one at a wrecker for a couple of hundred or so. Well it seems that the engine serial # is programmed into the processor in such a way that you need a special programmer to update that. ie. Pull it apart, clean up some programming pads, press the spring loaded programming pins onto those pads and pull the information, then change the serial # and then reprogram it.

Without that it won't talk to the rest of the car and the car won't start. The dealer will provide a new one ordered from the factory with the correct serial #. For about $2K.

Or it might just be the ignition key. They only have one so they can't try the other one. And again a new key to try, again matched to the vehicle serial #, is expensive. To try and have it not fix the issue they won't do. Although I think having a spare key is a good idea.

The thing is repairing instead of replacing is how I started my career. I'm still repairing things. But I'll also buy new...

I think a few of us on here have a similar background ie electronics repair. Being able to repair stuff is rewarding.....and addicting. I hate the disposable society we are in. I would like to know more about this ECU issue. You can do it through PM's if you like rather than boring others here. Any photos? I am surprised the module is serviceable... SMT or through hole components?

 

[jcdammeyer]

I think a few of us on here have a similar background ie electronics repair. Being able to repair stuff is rewarding.....and addicting. I hate the disposable society we are in. I would like to know more about this ECU issue. You can do it through PM's if you like rather than boring others here. Any photos? I am surprised the module is serviceable... SMT or through hole components?

I haven't had personal access. Just what I've read on the internet. They can get the car to start if they turn on the ignition and let it sit for a few minutes. Then OFF and ON and START and away it goes. We'll see what winter brings. They've spent enough on it now that it would be money in the toilet to junk it. Better to replace the ECU I think.

It's a sealed module. Needs to be taken apart. My understanding is it's programmed at the factory in the manner outlined below. Or something like that.

Here's a photo of a simple project I did many years ago. Only needed to be programmed once but with a unique code for each. The programming assembly was on an XYZ gantry system I built but with 20 TPI 1/4" threaded rod lead screws and cheap PA stepper motors it was way too slow to automatically program them. I ended up just inserting the programmer and pressing the spring pins against the board.

The brass hex alignment pins were done on my Gingery Lathe.