Restoration/Repairs on a 10" LD Utilathe - Standard Modern

[Brent H]

So a few weeks ago I purchased a 10' LD Standard Modern Utilathe serial number U530. The serial number is a bit like a submarine so I hope this project stays afloat and the lathe doesn't become a dive site somewhere. I have not had much time to do anything with it, basically get it home to the shop and leave for work and so far I have been vicariously making plans and some parts by texting my son and getting him to send me pictures.

Research through all the Standard Modern sites and you tube videos has proven to be somewhat beneficial, however, the 10" Utilathe seems to be somewhat lacking of any accurate detailed description. I have the manual for the 12 x 30 and it has reference to the 10 x 20 - some specifics in the parts section and a few measurements.

If all goes as per plan, I hope to create my own manual for the unit with accurate description and proper parts - with sources. So far I have been able to track down the Gits Oil cups and have those ordered and on the way and I have gone through the bearings (according to the manual) and have been able to find the Oilite bushings, needle bearings, and the SKF roller bearings.

If anyone out there has worked on this particular model, perhaps they can let me know if the bearing list in the manual is accurate - is the Timkin 18720&18790 the "as fitted" bearing/race or is it different - the 12 x 30 is listed with a threaded spindle where as the 10" I have has a D1-3 . Also there is a bearing fitted to the change gearbox upper shaft listed as a 6202-ZZ but this is crossed out and someone penciled in 3204....hmmmm

I am also converting (very slowly) some of the drawings of the 1120 1324 models into autocad so I can possibly machine a few of the parts that are the same. Bigger projects will include making a taper attachment, steady rest and other items

So far I have made up a new cast Iron 2 step drive pulley for the unit and will getting the original 1 hp, 220 volt 3 phase motor cleaned up and ready for action.

I am planning to use a VFD to convert the shop power for 3 phase. I have one on my mill and it works great. The VFD is a 3 Hp rated one so I should also be able to program the ramping to allow for some dynamic breaking when stopping the motor.

There is some minor damage at the face of the compound - will try a repair there and I will be making a new cast iron gib for the cross feed (brass one fitted right now).

If anyone has any advice/knowledge/documentation/parts It would be great!

Here is a couple pictures as set into the shop - nothing done at all

 

[RobinHood]

Hi Brent, have you tried to contact SM to get an electronic manual from them? I have had good success in the past. Just give them the serial number and they should usually be able to send you documents for your specific model and even give you possibly the year of manufacture/shipping year to the first owner of the lathe.

I used to own a 9” Utilathe.

Now I have a SM1120 and a SM1340. The bearings listed in the parts section of the 1340 manual has been accurate.

I completely disassembled and reassembled these three lathes to get years of grime off them in order to bring them back to life. The 9” Utilathe has since been beautifully restored by its current owner.

 

[Brent H]

Hey there Robin Hood, Thanks for the intel

Yes, I wrote to them and I was sent a manual - same one as I had from on line - it is the 12 x 30 manual and includes parts for the 10 x 20 - the only 2 things not clear on is the spindle bearing as the 12 x 30 came stock with a threaded spindle nose and the 10 x 20 came with a D1-3. Perhaps it is a different bearing than the Timkin 18720 & 18790 in the manual? I believe your 1120 and 1340 have D1-4 spindle noses and the bearings are listed as a Timkin 387A (2) and 384ED - which has conical bearings forward and aft facing. The bearing on the 12x30 is only one direction and from the manual picture it is set to absorb load in the direction of the head stock. The other difference is the manual I have has the 6202 changed to a 3204 which are way different size.? Could be a home modification?

I am off on the ship right now so I will not be able to get at the lathe until Wednesday next week - bummer - was just putting info together and tracking down the parts. All the bearings and little oil cups and a few other things I have found without a problem. I am hoping to build most of the other parts needed if possible - could be an exercise in futility - LOL - but hope to teach my son some machining/fabrication along the way.

Those are couple pictures of the pulley that I made out of cast iron - the center is a 1-1/4" piece of steel to a.- give me a bit of a mandrel to turn the piece and b.- I had to fill a void that was in the cast iron. The shaft I machined a few thou oversize and pressed/red loctited it into place. The motor shaft size is 5/8" and I bored that to size after drilling close (19/32). I used a boring bar arrangement with a 3/16" HSS square tool bit to slowly broach a key way. It worked quite well and the fit on a proper electric motor shaft is very nice. I statically balanced the pulley as there was another void on the backside that created a small vibration. Ran it up to 1800 rpm on the lathe and it seems to run quite true. It has a set screw down the center of the small wheel to retain it on the shaft.

 

[RobinHood]

Perhaps it is a different bearing than the Timkin 18720 & 18790 in the manual?

That I don’t know.

Yes, the D1-4 spindles have double 387A cones and a 384ED cup.

Is the 3204 on the output side of the QCGB onto the lead screw? If it is, that makes a lot of sense since a 3204 is a double row angular contact ball bearing. It keeps the lead screw axially located for both LH and RH threading. It could be a factory design change /upgrade from the early serial number models which may have had a 6202 ball bearing initially.

Great job on the step pulley. Looks good.

Getting the kids interested in troubleshooting and machining/fabricating is a great thing as well.

 

[Brent H]

So I got home on Wednesday and had a few hours to take a look at things and asses the situation with the lathe. All in all it looks like a few very careless folks attempted to use the lathe but overall it is in good condition for a refirb.

My son and I went at it last night and pretty much stripped it down in a couple hours. I found several Parts list errors - the bearing I was asking about is a 3202 (makes sense for size compared to the original 6202) so the written in 3204 is not correct. The belt is a 5L330 and it looks new on my machine so that is good.

I pulled the entire thing apart and checked everything - the rear spindle bearing was NFG so I ordered all new bearings for the head and it was only $100 including shipping for all skf and timkin bearings. The main spindle bearing is a single race 18790/18720 (a basic wheel bearing) so the the rear spindle bearing is a deep race 6207-2RS with a threaded nut backing it up so you can put some pre-load on the forward Tinkin assembly.

The gears looked very good - very surprising but that was good to see. It does not appear much threading was done on the unit and the thread screw is in great condition. The feed box had some crud in the detents so whoever was using it probably just set it and left it. The feed gears do have some mash wear, I will see what they cost but I might make them later in the lathes life, they still engage ok.

The only bummer is the lathe chuck (6" three jaw D1-3 mount). It dialed in right on the nuts (outer diameter) when I was running tests......BUT....somebody ground the jaws or spun a stone in the jaws as they clamp round stuff almost side ways.....well ....not that bad but a couple degrees. My test piece was out maybe a 1/4 inch at the end. So that is not great and I will need a new chuck - I am going to grind the jaws for the heck of it but it is probably toast. The chuck is a Victoria - made in England, probably original...alas.

Between centers the lathe was bang on and didn't vary over the 20 inch travel. The bed drops over the 20 inches about 0.010" and stays 0.000 across the chuck face so that is pretty decent for a lathe as old or older than me .

I will get pictures up at some point. Trying to get things fixed and back all running as I have a few projects on the go...LOL. I will also try to get an overhaul manual thing together with an updated parts list - the seals and the Oilite bushings have other numbers now etc. I am stripping the lathe and re-painting close to original grey - I will end up ford tractor grey I think.....maybe pink? LOL

If anyone has one of these and has a question, let me know, I have a lot of pieces right now...haha

 

[Tom O]

Take a look at this on trueing up the chuck jaws.
https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,4145.msg45159.html#msg45159

 

[trlvn]

Take a look at this on trueing up the chuck jaws.
https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,4145.msg45159.html#msg45159

Um, I can't see any pictures in that thread and it makes it pretty much impossible to follow.

Craig

 

[Brent H]

Sorry for the long delay but lots of stuff going on........

The lathe is mostly re-assembled, but will require a few fabrications and repairs to the tail stock to make it as close to 100% as I can get it.

I pulled it all apart as mentioned before and removed all the paint that was not solid to the parts. Someone had painted it a Craftex green at some point and that was all falling off. The lathe had also been painted a Yellow/green so that would be coming off/prepped for overcoating.

After stripping down and cleaning and sanding I primed the parts with farm implement primer purchased from TLC. This seemed the best bet for a lasting finish. After the primer cured I top coated with the Ford Grey Implement Paint from TLC. It is a light grey, almost white. It sprayed on very well with my HVLP Fuji sprayer and I added a bit of thinner to allow for a better spray.

I used a "green" paint stripper from Home Depot and allowed it to soak in quite well. the dark green paint wire brushed off quite easily.

While paint was curing I was working on the many issues, mechanical and cosmetic that I found as I dove deeper into the machine.

More in the next post....

 

[Brent H]

Problems and repairs along the way:

The original electric motor was a 208-220 volt 3 phase 1 Hp motor and I wanted to re-use it (the previous owner had a 1/2 hp single phase 240 reversing motor on the lathe). The reason I wanted to re-use the 3 phase motor was to install a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) and using the VFD would allow for electrical braking of the three phase motor and also allow for smoother running and easy reversing. The motor was full of swarf and I even pulled out a dry wall screw from the windings ....things did not look positive, however, I installed new bearings, cleaned the windings with contact/electrical cleaner, assembled and painted the motor. I spun fine and later on proved to run perfectly.

The Electric motor was the simple part of the "repair" operations. I masked the ID tag and painted it a gloss black.

My next "discovery" was a badly worn bronze gear in the feed speed control. There are two gears, one that allows for fine feed and one that allows for coarse feed. You pull out/push in on a shaft control that is fitted with a spring backed round profile key. As the gears turn the key with click into a key way on the gear and engage that feed. I appears previous operators had allowed the feed select to ride on the side of the bronze gear and wore it down. Someone had tried to repair it and set in a bushing and then locked that bushing with a set screw. The set screw was steel and not a wise choice.

I machined out a larger diameter in the gear and then set in a new bearing bronze bushing. I locked the bushing in with Loctite bearing retainer and where the set screw was I milled out a clean hole and set in a brass dowel locked in with bearing retainer and I also pin punched it in three places. I centred the gear on the mill and bored it to 0.7500" (shaft diameter) and then milled a 3/16" key way (milled and filed square). The gear fit the shaft very well and the key way clicked in properly.

As I didn't have use of the lathe I made the bushing and the finished the part on the mill. I took measurements of the gear and will eventually make a complete new assembly once I get some gear cutters for the mill as I found a few other issues that will need some gear repairs...ugh!

The feed gears on the back of the apron work well enough, however, they are worn and mushed up a bit. I wrote to the Standard Modern folks and requested a quote for new parts......the total for the 2 gears $789 US plus shipping .

These bevel gears are a little over 1" diameter and 2.25" diameter.......I can buy cutters for 105 CDN and have some fun learning how to make gears so I think that will be the choice.

One thing I did find is the 1/8" key that is welded to the drive bevel gear spool was badly worn (perhaps only a 32nd left). I milled out a new spot for a 1/8 key and welded it into place. It should have been tig welded but I spot mig welded it and filed a bit and it worked very well!

More coming.......

 

[Brent H]

The Lathe I have withstood some catastrophic failure at some point in its life by a careless operator. Some of the good condition of some parts of the lathe were the result of the fact that other parts of the lathe had been severely abused resulting in some features of the lathe not being used - like threading and feeding. As I took parts off and got to closely examine them I found lots of other problems. One such issue was a broken key on the main speed selection spindle gear arrangement.

The key was worn and broken clean at the one retaining screw. I had quite a challenge to match up the exact screw holes as they are not equal spaced from each end on the key way. I first cut and filed a new key to the proper length and ensured a tight fit. I then put the key in the mill vise and located it with an edge finder. I then used the DRO to move the mill over each hole centre, counter sunk and drilled through for a #10-32 retaining screw. There is not a lot of meat in the key to have the 2 retaining screws so I drilled one size above the threading bit for a #10 and after the key was installed ran the tap down through the key and into the shaft threads. This also helped lock the retaining screws in. A dab of Loctite 242 on each screw helped. I made one new retaining screw by grinding down a countersink head #10 and then cutting a slot with a hacksaw. The key works great and cleaned up slop in the gear slide. During this shafting repair I found a far worse problem that required some very patient file and die grinder work....

The key repair:

Key is the slotted screw piece on the left side of the shaft. Its hard to tell, but it is broken.

More coming..................................

 

[Brent H]

After this repair I was putting the assembly back together as new bearings had arrived as had new Oilite bushings. During disassembly I had found the main shaft aft bearing was badly worn - lots of slop and there was a few dead spots as it was turned by hand. I decided to just go all in and change out the bearings in the entire lathe. I went through the manual and also compared things to the actual bearings fitted to the lathe. I have a spread sheet made up if anyone is interested. I ordered the bearings from Quality Bearings and they cost about $150 and are all SKF and Timkin as per original. The bushings I ordered from McMaster Carr and came in at $45 with shipping. The bushings easily drove out with an aluminium drift and they tapped in snug using a brass drift sized to the OD of the bushings. The bearings pulled off easily with a bearing puller and I tapped the new ones with a socket sized to the bearing ID and clear of the shaft.

I re-installed the main speed selector shaft:

The Drive shaft is in behind and the two need to be moved about to align things properly. The set screw you see in the bottom right corner is to set the bearing retainer to ensure the shaft is in the correct position. At the back end of the shaft is a bearing spacer that sets the shaft distance and it is important to assemble the rear seal plate (seal is for the drive shaft and the is a surface for the bearing spacer to stop against) to the lathe and then set the front bearing retainer to eliminate slop. Set screw is then tightened up. The spring loaded selector lever can be set into the grove with the speed shaft loose in the gear box and pushing it outward while turning the selector into position. One thing I found out however, THE MAIN SHAFT GEAR MUST BE INSTALLED AND SITTING IN PLACE BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE SPEED SHAFT.....ugh!! take things apart again.....

and another repair due to major failure:

Yes sir......total bummer......this was going click click click for obvious reasons.......back to the surgical theatre to see what we can do.....

After lots of reading about how gear teeth cannot be repaired and how they can be repaired etc I decided to just go for it and see what happens. I measured up the gear assembly (it is a 12 DP x 72 T x 20 deg load angle) and it is cast iron. A 7' x 3" chunk of suitable cast is about $100 so I will eventually get cutters and make a new gear.

Throwing it all on the welding table I welded in a blob of the high nickle cast iron mig wire. It stuck well and no cracks - it is important to weld and let cool and build up layers (I peened in between on the hot weld).

Then began the grinding and filing. I would have cut the profile in if I had the cutter, but alas......

I found using a die grinder fitted with a small cut wheel worked great. Baked about 8 wheels in the process and filed for a few hours.

The pics are from part way in the process and it took additional fitting to get things all running smoothly, however, at the end....no more click click click.....

Insert the big gear before putting in the speed shaft!


Once the gear tooth was repaired the main parts of the lathe went back together quite quickly. Some cosmetic repairs.......coming soon

 

[Brent H]

So I believe a large portion of damage happened during the machining process someone was trying to achieve while reconditioning the tool post front and cross feed : The following picture may cause nausea and vomiting in sensitive metal workers and consider this a warning.....it is disgusting......

So after cleaning up the mess on the floor and accepting the brutal treatment my lathe had be subjected too I booted up the welder and, using the high nickle cast iron mig wire I began filling in the damage. I did not want to get too much heat going and also did not want to warp anything so the "repair" wasn't total back to original and fill in everything so there are a few spots remaining.....

I ground things back to profile and used a stone to fit the dovetails back to the gibs. Things work and look very well now.

After the few cosmetic repairs and more assembly the lathe went back together quite well.....more coming....

 

[Brent H]

The Lathe re-assembled:

Gear box not yet on on the above pic

Things that didn't pan out:

Original 3 jaw chuck is pretty much scrap. The jaws would need 100% re-doing and there is damage to the D1-3 spindle pins that make it a bit sketchy to use. I bought new 3 and 4 jaw chucks, machined the back plates and fit them to the lathe. I turned a test shaft and shimmed the head stock in to less than 0.0002" of run out over a 5 inch stick out. The above pic is a quick test turning and it worked out quite well.

The Tail stock needs to be line bored to be on the money. I will be making up some jigs and giving that a go over the next couple months. With the tailstock quill out to 3" it will wobble quite a bit ( over .010") I have a new over size quill I machined up out of some 4140 so I have to thread it (1/2 x10 Tpi ACME LH) and I have the #2 MT already bored. It needs some oil passages and a 1/4" groove for the locking arrangement.

I will be re-making the main gear at some point and will also remake the bronze feed gear and fine/coarse selector rod and the feed bevel gears.

The lathe is running now quite well and although it has a few "more noisy" speeds it is a super great addition to the shop. I have used it to make up some 1" x 14 tpi levelling feet:

and some lathe chuck keys

I have lots more pics and things but I'll pause here --- its a rainy day so getting this posted was a nice project!

 

[Johnwa]

Very Nice! I have an SM1120. One of the gearbox gears had been stripped and replaced with a spacer. The quote from Leblond was $750 to get one made. They did have a larger gear in stock for $50 so I ordered that, turned it to diameter and cut the teeth. They ship UPS so the shipping/brokerage fee was more than the cost of the gear.. Other than that mine’s in pretty good shape, although it too has scars on the compound.

 

[Brent H]

Hi Johnwa,

Your lathe has the drawings available on the vintage machinery website. The prints have most of the gear information, some of which is common to the 1020 so that has been helpful. I have dropped a few of them into autocad and scaled to match measurements and it is great. I am hoping to copy the steady rest and travel rest for the lathe.

I used the Blue Demon mig wire for cast iron. I welded with quick passes and it did not heat up the cast very much. Ground and filed and disc sanded back to profile. It worked quite well. I have repaired a broken band saw bracket with the wire previously and it worked well.

 

[kevin.decelles]

very nice.

 

[RobinHood]

Excellent job bringing this beat up machine back to life.

I measured up the gear assembly (it is a 12 DP x 72 T x 20 deg load angle) and it is cast iron.

How did you determine that it has a 20* pressure angle? I understand that it can be quite tricky to measure the PA of a gear.

 

[Brent H]

Hey Robin,

You are absolutely correct it is near impossible to measure the PA, especially on worn out gears, so I am going by the drawings for the 1120 & 1334 metric lathe - Headstock Assembly

The drawings have most of the gearing spec listed in various places. Many of the gears on the drawing are the same or have the same Diametrical pitch.

It is a bit of an assumption, yes, but I cannot see Standard Modern changing much of their design as the gear box assembly is fairly consistent. If the cutters come in and there is a discrepancy I will be sure to list it.

The gearing for the feed gear I need to make drawing shows 30T 16DP 14.5 PA. The gears for the pulley shaft are 16 DP 20PA and the outside gears for the feed drive show 16 DP 14.5 PA.

I am debating whether to get a hobbing style cutter or the set of 8 individual cutters.....

 

[RobinHood]

That makes a lot of sense. So it appears that inside the headstock - at least for all gears associated with driving the spindle - they use 20* PA; for everything else they use 14.5* PA.

 

[Johnwa]

I cut my gearbox gear to 14DP, 14.5 PA. The gearbox gears seemed to mesh properly with the rack on my Southbend lathe so I measured the angle from there.
Interesting enough my lathe is metric.