Rant about no name vs name Brand stuff

[justin1]

I got some name Brand tools that have iso/ASME rating and certification that I know I can trust and all that fun jazz also have that price tag to match.

Buttttt I got some Chinese stuff that I like the material choices for finishing or have nicer feel but know they "close" probly. But for 1/10 of priceish

This rant isn't really about quality of Chinese vs other nations just kinda wish the stuff you pay good money for had the bells and whistles and felt like what you paid for them if that makes sense.

My 2 examples I'm sorta ranting about. sure I could rattle off many more if I started digging threw tool box but these are the main two I kinda feel like ranting about ATM lol sure I'm not alone.

Guess my complains are is the Chinese test indiactor has full aluminum body and which feels heavier and what not comes with rounded plastic jewel with screen protector factory installed and comes with few extra holders and wrench and what I feel is better protector box or atleast more effective at probly protecting the test indiactor if one was to toss the box at the ground anyways.

the mitutoyo ones has mix of plastic and sintered aluminum flat jewel didn't come with protective plastic cover and only one holder. That and the test indiactor just rattles around in the factory box.

Just kinda wish the good stuff didn't feel so throw away that and glass jewels were a thing again. Mostly that good stuff felt like a Rolex not a Timex lol. I know most of the cost is the certificate but still. Feel is nice too.

 

[PeterT]

Hmm.... I could say a lot of things here, both for & against. I'm normally a Mitutoyo fan boy but ranted about my recent Mitutoyo parallel set from a dealer that was sub-standard & which I (painfully) returned. I do know some Mitutoyo instruments have been outsourced to various other countries vs. Japan. Which I'm fine with as long as quality & return policy is acceptable.

I didn't do an exhaustive search but when I type in 99MAG023 into Mitutoyo catalog or a few dealers I've used, it doesn't come up. Are you sure you didn't buy a clone? Where did you get it?

Search Results for "Mitutoyo dial test indicator"

www.itm.com

https://www.mitutoyo.ca/images/new_products/2017/E120352_Test_Indicator.pdf

https://www.mitutoyo.ca/images/catalog/Catalog_US-1004_En/html5/

 

[Susquatch]

the mitutoyo ones has mix of plastic and sintered aluminum flat jewel didn't come with protective plastic cover and only one holder. That and the test indiactor just rattles around in the factory box.

Not my experience at all. I'd bet you got conned with a knockoff Mitutoyo.

It is happening more and more. Even the dealers are getting conned.

Can you post some photos of the box, label, dial face, and tip junction sector?

@PeterT - I'm still thinking yours was a fake too. Did you get replacements?

 

[Canadium]

Yeah its a can of worms that I think has been discussed here before. There are clones that have no name and there are clones where even the name and trademarks are copied. A variant of the question is clones that are designed to look like the real thing and sometimes are very difficult to tell from the real thing. In other cases the eastern stuff is getting better quality and local stuff is getting worse in order to compete in price. My most recent example is the Mahr millimess. If its sold on Ali how can it be genuine? Am I getting a fake/copy or the real thing? How would I know if I'm buying genuine quality or a second rate clone?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000382749869.html

Mahr 4334000 Millimess Dial Comparator Model 1003, Range +- 50 µm, Grad 1 µm, 8 mm Stem

Mahr 4334000 Millimess Dial Comparator Model 1003, Range +- 50 µm, Grad 1 µm, 8 mm Stem.

www.msi-viking.com

 

[Susquatch]

If its sold on Ali how can it be genuine? Am I getting a fake/copy or the real thing? How would I know if I'm buying genuine quality or a second rate clone?

I don't think being on Ali necessarily makes it a fake.

Ali is just another Amazon. But being a Chinese version is different in many ways. One of which is that they cater to the tiny shops that abound in a country with billions of people.

I found that any threat to report nefarious activity by a vendor to Ali results in immediate action to make me happy. The image that creates in my mind is one where some small shop owner gets dragged away and fed to the crocodiles.

The price on that Millimess certainly suggests it is genuine. I have a genuine one and it looks exactly like that. It's a nice unit.

 

[Susquatch]

FWIW, I'm slowly getting more and more comfy with Ali. I've spent some big cash there on my DRO, and I'm happy with it. I've also bought end mills, hardware, and odds n sods. No sex toys though..... not yet anyway.....

Speaking of that, it's one of the many differences. Amazon doesn't do that. But Ali assumes everyone is a sex maniac. Perhaps that's why there are billions of people there.......

 

[Mcgyver]

I think buying expensive branded stuff on Ali is asking for it. I wish Mitutoyo (and others) would figure out how to use block chain technology for this (the real value of that technology imo)

the mitutoyo ones has mix of plastic and sintered aluminum flat jewel didn't come with protective plastic cover and only one holder. That and the test indicator just rattles around in the factory box.

Sintered AL doesn't seem a great choice. I've had a few apart that were plated brass, they've changed that? What was the give away?

Did you buy it new? I just bought a new Mit digital mic (on sale at KBC for $200, one of the only new things I've bought lol) and it came sealed in a bag inside the plastic case. The thick(ish) bag stopped it from rattling around. For sure though Mitutoyo is deserving of packaging criticism......decades of BS rotting foam.

 

[PeterT]

I'm still thinking yours was a fake too. Did you get replacements?

It came from ITM, an authorized Mitutoyo dealer. And the PN lists in Mitutoyo N-Am catalogs. So unfortunately it was a manufacturing dud. First item I ever experienced from Mitutoyo. It did get manufactured in another land, but as mentioned that's not necessarily bad as long as QC is there. I've seen Mitutoyo rules, gages, possibly even older gen verniers made in Mexico & Brazil, but they were still decent. The dial & mainstream stuff still says made in Japan & quality seems to be there. So disappointing. Maybe a bad manufacturing choice or particularly if this is the beginning of a trend. What was brutal about ITM was the episode of returning the item despite many clear emails, pictures, reminder emails, phone calls, emails.... Many months went by. Just have a look at their own star rating comments. There prices are a bit lower on average but I'm personally not sure its worth the risk if anything goes sideways. I'd rather buy elsewhere & reward customer service where its deserved.

 

[PeterT]

My most recent example is the Mahr millimess. If its sold on Ali how can it be genuine? Am I getting a fake/copy or the real thing? How would I know if I'm buying genuine quality or a second rate clone?

That's interesting, they are venturing into the European names. Now I've also read about other explanations supposedly from people in the know:

a) they actually ARE outsourced to Asia for cost reasons, but its supposed to be hush-hush so as to preserve the name aura. Many prior mainstream names have been doing it for years on certain items, Starrett, Jacobs to name a few. This allows enterprising firms the opportunity to sell some direct which apparently they feel no guilt about but presumably risks losing their manufacturing agreement which I'm sure the lawyers covered off. Or maybe these are manufacturing rejects that didn't pass QC so a wink-wink method of recovering costs under agreement. Lets give this a 5% probability

b) Its just another item to clone, just another day in the fake label making shop. Its like an Olympic sporting event. The higher the retail value the more attractive the target. Really too bad because many times the quality is acceptable or downright good if they would just call it their own brand & compete in the market on that basis rather than plagiarize (patent issues aside). Lets give this 95% probability.

I've been watching some Ebay listings on Euro name measuring items usually from eastern block countries which are in some economic turmoil. They are predominantly metric which is inconvenient to me but not the end of the world. There are 4 metrics for every 1 Imperial & prices are lower. Some might be 'lunchbox inventory' because they have that 80's-90's vintage, some are actually new. But now I'm wondering if the new-new stuff is maybe repackaged Ali stock. Its a minefield out there.

On another note I've been buying carbide tooling from Ali (usually CNC tooling shops) & very pleased with the product, shipping times, cost and return policy which hasn't been necessary often. But they call it their own name so there is no ambiguity in the matter. Now I'm drifting off topic.

 

[justin1]

Hmm..

I think buying expensive branded stuff on Ali is asking for it. I wish Mitutoyo (and others) would figure out how to use block chain technology for this (the real value of that technology

I did buy it from new KBC so I would think it is legit and ye wish the packing was more shock proof. When I ordered from KBC came in one of those Bubble envelopes which would be fine if the case was better.

The clamp that came with the mitutoyo is way better made then the Chinese ones that's it's actually machines vs cast. + 1 mitutoyo lol

I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if I knew what I was buying was more robust. But I guess I buy Canadian Tire stuff for the warranties not the quality lol

 

[justin1]

On another note I've been buying carbide tooling from Ali (usually CNC tooling shops) & very pleased with the product, shipping times, cost and return policy which hasn't been necessary often. But they call it their own name so there is no ambiguity in the matter. Now I'm drifting off topic.

Ye I bought all my carbide from Ali so far I've done more damage to them miss handling then using so I'm pretty happy with them same as the shell mills and holders

Forgot picture of face of mitutoyo test indiactor.

My Starrett stuff I've bought new or used over the years I haven't had any complaints packaging wise or finish is usually feels good and the certs come in bag to protect them and keep good for long time.

 

[Susquatch]

..decades of BS rotting foam.

LOL! I used to think it was awesome. Till it got old like me. Don't like it anymore. Don't much like that ugly critter I see in the mirror either.....

 

[Susquatch]

I did buy it from new KBC so I would think it is legit and ye wish the packing was more shock proof. When I ordered from KBC came in one of those Bubble envelopes which would be fine if the case was better.

Mine don't look like that. But I haven't bought a new one in 10 years. All my old ones still work just fine. (another plus for mitutoyo).

 

[PeterT]

That Starrett dial bore gauge is an offshore manufactured item. I know because I had one. Wasn't horrible but a bit plasticky for my liking & I think the bezel popped off during shipping. Luckily it was contained within that beautiful box LOL. They used to make their own but no longer, at least in that size. For about the same money I got a Mitutoyo which more readily accepts different dials on their standardized mount. And you can get replacement anvils/parts in Canada. And you can buy different length/range bore gage versions without dial gage so just swap in what you have to save some money that way.

 

[justin1]

That Starrett dial bore gauge is an offshore manufactured item. I know because I had one. Wasn't horrible but a bit plasticky for my liking & I think the bezel popped off during shipping. Luckily it was contained within that beautiful box LOL. They used to make their own but no longer, at least in that size. For about the same money I got a Mitutoyo which more readily accepts different dials on their standardized mount. And you can get replacement anvils/parts in Canada. And you can buy different length/range bore gage versions without dial gage so just swap in what you have to save some money that way.

I don't mind it does the job I've had it for over 5 years now I think . I use it every once and a while don't care much for the plastic body that holds the indiactor but besides that has worked for what I've done with lol.

If I have more free money when it dies il probly replace with sunnen

Ye a lot of companies are starting to just slap there name on offshore stuff. Snap on is one that rings a bell and I think the mitutoyo stuff KMS tools sells is just mitutoyo in name

 

[Rauce]

I’ve been fairly happy with inserts from aliexpress as well. All the ones I’ve bought that had their own branding have been decent. The only ones that were duds came in “sandvik” packaging, which wasn’t even noted in the item description, I wasn’t trying to buy knock offs.

I’ve hardly bought any measuring tools new. One bad one I can think of is a Shars tenths indicator I impulse bought on sale when ordering some other stuff. I wanted to use it at work so it had.to get checked and it failed calibration right out of the box for repeatability.

 

[Dabbler]

I just bought a new Mit digital mic (on sale at KBC for $200, one of the only new things I've bought lol) and it came sealed in a bag inside the plastic case. The thick(ish) bag stopped it from rattling around. For sure though Mitutoyo is deserving of packaging criticism......decades of BS rotting foam.

I bought a Mitutoyo 293-831-30 digital mic from KBC a couple of years ago... and ... No foam! injection molded fully formed case that fits it fine...

 

[Mcgyver]

I bought a Mitutoyo 293-831-30 digital mic from KBC a couple of years ago... and ... No foam! injection molded fully formed case that fits it fine...

as did this one. Far better. Its not a Starrett wood box, but far better than that crappy disintegrating foam.

Ought to be a recall on everything they ever shipped with it lol

 

[justin1]

The only mitutoyo thing I got with white foam stuff was combination square set from 1990s. Bought a used 5-6 micrometer from 1980s probly came in wood box made in Brazil lol.

Any of the new mitutoyo stuff I have have is all that injection molded cases which are smaller nicer to store but the vernier calipers and test indiactor boxes are both on the loose side for shipping I think. They could atleast put maybe small piece of packing foam in with it for shipping as shipping is the most likely time its gonna it gonna get abused in the box.

Still has rubber protectors and certs