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Mill and lathe advice

Trent ks

Trent ks

Member
Hello! I am new to precision machining for the most part. I have checked around for machines at every tool store I can find to see what's available used. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on older mill types and which ones are common enough that I could find spare parts or components for them if I needed. I know there are a whole lot of models out there and my question is a bit vague, I'm trying to narrow my focus to a few brands, or maybe which brands to avoid! Thanks!

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Bridgeport is the most comon older manual mill. They can be expensive and there are many chinese copies made of them. It is a decent machine and it is easy to find parts on the internet. Any craftx mill from busybee tools is a less expensive option and parts are available if you need them. Force international is another cheap brand and they seem ok. I have a 2006 force knee mill and it still works great.
 
Really good brands are bridgeport, Excello, cincinati milling machine, fort worth milling machine. I have experience on all of these and they were all a cut above the rest.
 
I'd agree with Alex but you would need to be a bit more specific.. what are you planning on doing?
There are 60k hardinge lathes out there the size of a starter lathe from busy bee, so it has a lot to do with what you call precision and what you're trying to accomplish. For millingredients machines I think you need to get an idea of what you want to spend and what you want to do with it. I've seen plenty of Bridgeport that have been run so hard they're just a sloppy drill press so it's not an easy question to answer.
 
kylemp said:
I'd agree with Alex but you would need to be a bit more specific.. what are you planning on doing?
There are 60k hardinge lathes out there the size of a starter lathe from busy bee, so it has a lot to do with what you call precision and what you're trying to accomplish. For millingredients machines I think you need to get an idea of what you want to spend and what you want to do with it. I've seen plenty of Bridgeport that have been run so hard they're just a sloppy drill press so it's not an easy question to answer.
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Thank you for the response. I would mostly like a manual mill that I can use to build other machines (off the top of my head a belt grinder, among other things) and knife profiling/drilling/tapping etc..

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I'd think knife profiling would be pretty difficult on a manual machine but as long as you are not looking for very tight tolerances you should be able to go with any Taiwanese machine, my suggestion would be to stay away from the round column styles as they can't do heavy milling but even that may be OK for your application as you won't be trying to run anything too large. As far as your original post about finding a machine that you could get replacement parts for I would again agree with Alex with the only caveat that machines like the force brand are from the now defunct house of tools (I had the same machine he does) and while the near identical match is available through the grizzly (they're still around) it could be tricky to find the correct parts..
 
Pretty much what the guys have said already. Mills & lathes are not real common 'store' items around Calgary. Maybe one exception, Busy Bee which has their line at the smaller scale / hobbyists level. There is lots of info on internet, pros & cons, likes & dislikes on them. You will discover that BB machines might appear quite similar to models offered by other distributers as they all originate from Asian suppliers. But there still can be internal differences.

Modern Tool Calgary is a machinery supplier for big boy mills, lathes & CNC's & also have occasional used machines. http://www.moderntool.com/products/category/milling-machines/
It would be worth a trip just to get you grounded as what typical machines looks like. Chat up the sales guys & get a handle on features & prices. If you have a 2K budget it might be a quick conversation :) If you have 10K they can sell you a mill & lathe off the floor. They also source from Asia just like King, KBC, Bauer, Grizzly & other distributers. But they do some front end QC for you & therefore contact point for parts. Milling machines wise, depending on your budget & available space, Modern might not be a great match though. Their smaller mill is a round column which personally I'm not keen on. The bigger ones with dovetails (Bridgeport type clones) look pretty decent but bigger $. I have what's called an RF-45, happens to be King from Taiwan but comes in different flavors. Its kind of in-between size & capability wise, but its right for my needs. A USA company called Precision Mathews offers a more current version of this & despite being in USA $FX has a great reputation for shipping to Canada. And shipping is another big consideration, both cost & effort wise.

A big factor is how much you want to spend & experience with machinery. If you are handy with tuning up older machines & sourcing parts, there are probably some good deals on used iron. But if you are wanting to make things & not second guess whats under the hood, personally I'd look for something a little bit fresher. BTW there is a good YouTube channel I've subscribed to called BasementShopGuy. He has a whole series of videos on tearing down & rebuilding older school machines - lathes, mills, shapers, grinder... Particularly Southbend lathes which he has a soft spot for, but also what you might come across one day in Kijii from a retiring hobbyist. Its not oly educational, but will give you a flavor of whats involved in rebuilds ranging from lipstick cleanups to full rebuilds.

Now this is just talking machines thus far. When it comes to tooling that these machines require, I would check out (mostly online but paper catalogs also available) KBC & Travers in Canada. There are also Calgary distributers for tooling, maybe not as convenient to peruse on-line. Thomas Skinner & DMH are 2 local places I've used.
 
I'd go look at kms tools and see what they have on the floor to get a sense of size and prices. They have king brand which is Chinese and very similar to BB. And go look at BB too. I have a cx600 from BB. It's under $2k I still really like it although it's 'small' for a first mill it's been very capable to learn on. They all look the same in the internet but in person they are quite different. Getting some hands practice on at a maker centre or a friend will really help narrow things down. A more capable machine like a cx600 will also be easier to sell than one of the really small ones.
 
Here I'm talking Calgary & OP is in BC. Sorry about that.

- There is a Modern Tool location in Port Coquitlam
- KBC Tools is in Delta. I thought I heard they have a physical storefront & machines on floor? http://www.kbctools.ca/
- Bauer Industrial is in Burnaby, they handle some Taiwan machines http://www.bauerltd.ca/
 
I had not heard of Bell Machinery before, thanks for the link. The Oxford 931GH is an upgraded version of my RF-45 dovetail mill with some nice extra features like readout on Z & power feed on Z. Actually a nice looking machine. I'd be very happy with that & with the DRO & power feed, that's a pretty decent price IMO. There is a very similar looking Precision Mathews but Bell is closer to you.

Curious, the King 14x40 now clearly says China made. Mine was Taiwan back in the day. But I wouldn't hold anything against it until viewed. $8400 with the accessories shown.
http://www.bellmachineryltd.com/new_king_1440ml.html

Looks quite similar to Modern's (not surprisingly). But Modern doesn't show price.
http://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-model-c0636a-x-1000-lathe/

Here is Kings specs assuming its the same model.
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=116&ID=12037
 
I found this lathe for sale. It's a Ml4 myford type. He wants $2000 for it. I haven't been able to find out if that is a decent price for it. I assume if it is in good working order it is not too far off the price mark than similar machines I've seen for sale in the UK. I am going to see it tomorrow so I'm not sure of its condition. Any thoughts or advice before I head out to see it?
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Myfords were very popular back in the day with model engineering types especially in the UK. Maybe the 60's & 70's was the golden era although I think predominantly those were ML7's. Not sure what the age ML4 is but guessing 50's? This might help http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford/index.html

The issue is they are few & far between. I've read comments by older gen ME's in UK who say they just cant be bothered anymore because parts are getting scarce & that's ML7's & 10's. They just go straight to Asian machines & put their tinker time in those. If part of the your buzz is the nostalgia of the machine & you are committed to some TLC or even ground up restoration like some nice examples on this forum, that's a different angle. Type 'myford' into ebay & see how many hits you get. And of those, I suspect majority are model 7+. If you are wanting to get into machining & make parts right away, personally I'd invest in something newer myself.

There is a really good YouTube channel called BasementShopGuy. He has a soft spot for older USA iron like Southbends. It would beneficial for you to see some of the teardowns. Even though the machines are different, some similar principles in terms of wear, bearings, bushings, ways & types of surprises under the hood. I'm going on a limb but it might have some classic Brit threads here & there so that might be fun if you have to replace things. 2K sounds like a lot but I really know nothing about these.
 
A Southbend sold by my friend last year (9A, went for $1000) It was in excellent+ shape. Unless you are really impressed by its pedigree or condition, I'd pass for something more recent or better condition.
 
I will check out the basementshopguy. I've been looking for about 5 months the smaller lathes seem to be 2000+. I do like the idea of fixing up and using an antique machine, though a southbend would be easier to source as you have said. I found one in Bellingham but it is $2000 USD. This myford is right by my work, along with this sharp lathe which is also $2000
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The Sharp also has a quick change gear box. Really there's no contest unless the Sharp is broken somehow.
 
It's a Sharp Lam350B from Taiwan. There seem to be decent reviews of it online. I'll see if I can have a look at it next week.

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In my daily CL perusing I finally found something in my budget. A 1941 Southbend Model A with a 4'-6" bed. I paid $1200 for it, but it is in fantastic condition. The previous owner had bought it from a cemetery 30 years ago.
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I'm not sure if the table I have it on will cause problems, its sitting on 1" plywood with 3" x 3" legs and secured to the floor and to the concrete wall of the garage. I was considering making a concrete table top and gluing it to the surface to give it some weight and prevent any shaking.
 
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