Metal lathe options

[Chris Cramer]

What is the required HP to work metal? I am looking at the affordable 8 x 13 wood lathe from KMs tools https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-8-quot-x-13-quot-variable-speed-wood-lathe.html
However I'm not sure if it can be used with metal. What exactly is the difference between a metal and wood lathe other than the cutting tools?

 

[BaitMaster]

@Chris Cramer That wood lathe (and 99% of other wood lathes) wont work for steel especially or metal.

Metal lathes are vastly more rigid, have screwed/geared movements for the carriages and tools, have much different tool mounting fixtures (wood lathes typically you just used a hand held chisel on a rest, which would never work for metal).

That wood lathe you sent the link to is an 8" swing wood lathe, with a weight of 47 lbs. For example, an 8" ish swing metal lathe would likely weight 300+ lbs. My 12" Swing metal lathe weighs in excess of 1000lbs.

Not recommended to try turning metal on a wood lathe. Not at all. You would likely have the chisel blow up in your face and or severely injure yourself. Buy the right tool for the right job.

That being said you could turn wood on a metal lathe no problem if that was what you wanted, but it would be overkill and not very convenient.

 

[Susquatch]

What is the required HP to work metal? I am looking at the affordable 8 x 13 wood lathe from KMs tools https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-8-quot-x-13-quot-variable-speed-wood-lathe.html
However I'm not sure if it can be used with metal. What exactly is the difference between a metal and wood lathe other than the cutting tools?

I'm sorry Chris, I missed your question somehow.

Baitmaster covered the answer to your question quite well.

The best way to get a lathe with metal turning capability at comparably low cost is to put whatever cash you can afford in an envelope, leave the car engine running, and the trailer hooked up while you very very patiently wait for the right deal.

Another way to do it is to get a very old machine. I used a very old 1880s lathe for 30 years before I got my current lathe. It won't do everything a newer lathe can do but any lathe is better than no lathe and it will cut metal.

Where abouts are you anyway?

 

[Chris Cramer]

Thanks for the tips. It makes good sense that the mass, torque and strength of the machine would be critical to cut metal despite the hardness of a carbide cutting tool.
Metal lathes are also quite a bit bigger than wood lathes. I still live with my dad in strathcona in the SW of Calgary. My shop is a separated single bay of our 3 car garage, and could not fit a metal lathe inside with all my other equipment unless I got a small lathe perhaps.

 

[140mower]

Metal lathes don't need to be big to cut metal. You just need to scale down your projects. IMHO you would be well served with a little 9" South Bend or perhaps a MyFord ( or Atlas, Standard Modern, Logan, etc. ). None of which will do everything, but their limitations will teach you more than the larger, better featured one that you replace it with ever could. And with the right attachments and an open mind, you can do almost anything on the lathe alone, that the rest of us are doing with a complete shop. ( Like such a thing exists). Good luck with the hunt, with patience, you should be able to find something to play with in the $1200-$2000 range, in some instances much less, but you have to be willing to drop what you are doing and move on the great deals, because they don't last long....... YMMV..... CLOSED COURSE, PROFESSIONAL DRIVER. Etc.

 

[PeterT]

Metal lathes are also quite a bit bigger than wood lathes

Yes & no. On the small end of spectrum, Sherlines & TAIG's & jeweler style lathes are all 'metal' lathes but just intended for much lighter duty metal cutting. I have seen some awesome model engineering projects completely machine on Sherline that I would have never dreamed possible. So depends on what you want to do. But anyways, as others said, that wood lathe is not suitable for metal on multiple fronts even if the HP was a match. Also, some chucks/accessories are common to metal lathes (MT shanks), but many are not, or different.

I'll throw out another thought. I made some Xmas gifts on my 14x40 lathe from the usual kits. But I quickly realized I did not care for the chips & dust on my metal lathe at all. It gets everywhere & turns into mung on any oiled surface. Same goes for the acrylic/urethane/epoxy type resin blanks. I've turned plastics, nylon, UHMW etc. no problem, but they act more like metal swarf. So I had Saran wrap on the ways & vacuum hooked up 1" from surface & even so.... PITA. If I ever got into this type of hobby I would gladly spring for a wood lathe which are more made for this action.

 

[buckbrush]

I have had 2 10” Atlas lathes. They are wood lathes with end gears and a lead screw attached. All the greats and handles are made of die cast Zamak, flat bed rails … Still better than no lathe. Old Dave Sobel was a machine tool parts supplier in New Jersey. He called Atlas lathes the Lathe that won world war 2.

 

[Chris Cramer]

I'm now debating whether to get the Vevor 550W mini lathe on sale now for $678 or the 650W mini lathe for $1000. The 650W machine caught my attention not as much for the higher power, but for the durability, and the more precise operation. It's also been much higher on the list of every review site. The most that is keeping me away from the 550W machine is some of the reviews that reported a need for quite a bit of fine tuning, as well as the use of nylon gears. Only It still comes to me that it could still be enough.

Most of what I plan to use it for is for custom components that would include threading and specific sized cylinders; as well as ornamental metal turning that could be used for pommels on my knives or other projects. Because of all that use A better machine that would last longer could be worth purchasing.

 

[Susquatch]

I'm now debating whether to get the Vevor 550W mini lathe on sale now for $678 or the 650W mini lathe for $1000.

Buy which ever one commands a better resale percentage and then don't buy accessories that lock you in.

Deliberately set yourself up to upgrade down the road. If you never do, it was a great call. If you do, it was a great call.

Any lathe is better than no lathe. The value you get out of using it will be more than you lose selling.

You are in a very good position no matter what. After you have a lathe for a year or two reassess your needs and wants and make another decision.

 

[Former Member]

My first improvised lathe was a drill and file ground to a cutter, free handing both to get the parts I needed. Repeatable parts. Looking back at some of these memories, I'm surprised I still have all my fingers and no major injuries.

Yes you can use one, just don't expect to be work the same way you would with a metal lathe.

Would I recommend it, no, modern metal working equipment, even cheap stuff can do some amazing and adds a whole huge level of safety and ease of use.

 

[Chris Cramer]

I purchased the vevor 7x14 mini lathe. I tried turning some steel and it does work, but the metal is removed not in clean spirals but in small flakes. I don't know if that is because of the tools I purchased or because the 3 Jaw chuck doesn't hold the stock perfectly. It was the same case with brass when I turned a small tapered ornamental pommel for a knife.

 

[Susquatch]

but the metal is removed not in clean spirals but in small flakes.

This is a toughy to talk about.

Small chips are generally preferred over long spirals. So it's possible that you are doing something RIGHT, not something wrong.

However, if they are the result of rubbing or vibrating or chatter, then that's not good.

Can you post a short video and maybe a photo of your cutting tool?

 

[Susquatch]

Also, since this is your first lathe, perhaps I should assume that you may not be familiar with the correct tool setup. You need to set a correct position for the tool on center with the work and at the appropriate angle. You must also set an appropriate feed rate, depth of cut, and RPM to match the material size and type as well as the parameters of your cutting tool.

Again, a short video would help us help you.

 

[Bandit]

Yes, pictures if possible would help, or that short vid ( as per Sasquatch). And a couple of questions, why do you think the chuck is not holding the stock properly? Is the stock round? What's the stock diameter? Are the "tools" you got carbide or high speed steel?
I know, more then a couple of questions. Others will have lots more, I want to ask more, but a few at a time so not over whelmed, and you say "if" it.
We can help you get there.

 

[Tom Kitta]

I purchased the vevor 7x14 mini lathe. I tried turning some steel and it does work, but the metal is removed not in clean spirals but in small flakes. I don't know if that is because of the tools I purchased or because the 3 Jaw chuck doesn't hold the stock perfectly. It was the same case with brass when I turned a small tapered ornamental pommel for a knife.

This is a function of many things. Such as the metal alloy you are cutting - I cut a lot of metal alloy that is not mild steel and thus it creates super long strings most of the time.
The next thing is insert geometry - what is the chip breaker like - and related - is your depth of cut sufficient to take advantage of it.
I would also mention speeds and feeds.

 

[Chris Cramer]

Every tool from the facing tool, turning tool, and gouging tool breaks chips of the metal stock. I Started with 1" stainless steel round bar and did lots of experimenting with different speeds and feed rates all done manually. The facing and turning tools will leave a fairly nice finish by chiping if only half a mm is cut; but if a depth of 1mm or more is cut the tool leaves a rough finish. How much force should I deliver when cutting a depth of 1mm or more? It makes sense that a string would not be cut if the feed rate was not fast enough compared to the speed, but I also would not want to push the cutting tool beyond its cutting capability. That is why I also tried turning some solid brass rod with of course was easier than the stainless steel, but it still seemed to cut much slower than I have seen on most videos of this machine even when running it at full speed (2500 rpm).

 

[Former Member]

Long spirals indicate the right cut, feed, speed rate.

This is the big reason why chip breaker inserts got developed. Even on hand ground HS cutters can be set to chip break.

Even with endmills the more continuous your chips the better. By nature of the best keeps them a certain size. Even with tapping or threading the same applies.

The main reason for breaking chips is to avoid getting the in the path of the cutting edge. The second most important reason is they are a serious injury hazard,

 

[Chris Cramer]

I did test the alignment of the chuck with the tail stock, the tip of the live center lines up with the center of the chuck. The tools are all carbide and I just found that the 1/2" holders of every tool hold the tools about a mm above the center of the chuck, so I'll have to grind down the bottom of each holder to get them to line up properly. HSS tools would probably be better, as I can tell that the carbide tools get red hot when cutting at a faster feed rate which HSS would withstand much better.
I attached some photos of the setup, but I could not attach a short video even one that was small enough.

 

[Susquatch]

I did test the alignment of the chuck with the tail stock, the tip of the live center lines up with the center of the chuck. The tools are all carbide and I just found that the 1/2" holders of every tool hold the tools about a mm above the center of the chuck, so I'll have to grind down the bottom of each holder to get them to line up properly. .

OK. I was not talking about your tailstock alignment, I was talking about your tool height. You have confirmed it is 1mm too high. That's a problem. For almost all turning it should centered.

You should not have to grind anything down. If you do, then something is not set right or something is the wrong size. You should be able to adjust each tool to center without grinding.

If your tool is too high, then the tool will rub instead of cutting. That is the other thing I mentioned as a possible cause...

Figure out how to adjust your tool height, and make sure your tools are the right size and you should be all set.

 

[Susquatch]

HSS tools would probably be better, as I can tell that the carbide tools get red hot when cutting at a faster feed rate which HSS would withstand much better.
I attached some photos of the setup, but I could not attach a short video even one that was small enough.

Chris. Carbide should not get hot. They are hot because they are too high and they are rubbing instead of cutting.

Looking more closely at your setup, it looks like you have 5/8 tools in there when they should be 1/2, or 1/2 when they should be 3/8.

Ive never used that kind of tool post. Only the old lantern style or the new Aloris nXA style. Lots of guys on here have the same tool post as you and can give better advice.

But grinding the bottom of your tools should not be required. There has to be an adjustment for that. Every tool has to be precisely adjusted to be exactly on center in order to cut properly. So you must learn how to do that. It is a very important part of using your lathe properly.

There are lots of ways to determine if your tools are set on center. But I highly recommend that everyone's very first project should be to make a lathe height gauge for their lathe.