Making a surface grinder wheel arbor

[Susquatch]

I want to make a surface grinder wheel adapter and a balancing arbor. I could probably buy the adapter, but I'm too cheap to buy the balancing arbor. I figure if I'm gunna make the arbor, I might as well make the adapter too.

Before I got the surface grinder I would have simply cut both on my lathe first and then polished them up with emery paper and blue for a custom fit.

But now that I have a surface grinder, I'm thinking about rough cutting on the lathe and then custom grinding with a spin Indexer and sine plate or milled 1.5 in 12 adapters. The taper is 3 in 12.

What does the collective wisdom of the members say about this?

Or is it better to just use emery paper to clean up the taper on the lathe the old way?

 

[DavidR8]

I don't think you need the precision of a ground arbour to balance the wheels. I recall seeing one made, might have been Stan of Bar Z Ranch fame. He just turned it and it was fine.

 

[Dabbler]

The only thing to remember is that it all needs to be cut in a single setup. Polishing the taper is kinder to your adapters, but not necessary.You want solid, concentric contact, for the best balance, so the bluing is a great approach.

 

[Chipper5783]

I built a balance arbor - per above comments, and it seems to work well.

The wheel adapter arbors are another matter. The main brand in N America seems to be Sopko. It is a bit tricky to purchase directly from them, but they directed me to a couple distributors.
I ended up getting two wheel arbors from DaveH at Precision Spindle & Accessories in Otterville, Ont. They were about $125 each (probably up a bit from that now). There are a lot of details in those little arbors - the price is well worth it. I suggest you track down Dave and talk to him.

The arbors are heat treated, the taper needs to be spot on to protect your tool spindle, the faces are ground slightly concave so they grip over the whole face (the flange deflects slightly when you tighten the wheel nut). Sure anything is “possible”, but it would be a significant effort to produce an arbor that is much lower quality. Then if you have grinders performance issues (ie. surface finish) - and you are chasing your tail to figure it out, there will be the question of whether the arbor is contributing to the problem.

Buy good quality wheel arbors - it is well worth the money.

 

[Susquatch]

I built a balance arbor - per above comments, and it seems to work well.

The wheel adapter arbors are another matter. The main brand in N America seems to be Sopko. It is a bit tricky to purchase directly from them, but they directed me to a couple distributors.
I ended up getting two wheel arbors from DaveH at Precision Spindle & Accessories in Otterville, Ont. They were about $125 each (probably up a bit from that now). There are a lot of details in those little arbors - the price is well worth it. I suggest you track down Dave and talk to him.

The arbors are heat treated, the taper needs to be spot on to protect your tool spindle, the faces are ground slightly concave so they grip over the whole face (the flange deflects slightly when you tighten the wheel nut). Sure anything is “possible”, but it would be a significant effort to produce an arbor that is much lower quality. Then if you have grinders performance issues (ie. surface finish) - and you are chasing your tail to figure it out, there will be the question of whether the arbor is contributing to the problem.

Buy good quality wheel arbors - it is well worth the money.

I talked to Bill at Sopko a few days ago. His price for the adapters was not outrageous but the balancing arbour was.

Your advice on the adapters is good, and since they are not out of reach maybe that's what I should do. But I confess that I had wanted to make ones that had balancing designed right in. I don't feel comfortable drilling the stone even though others here do. So maybe I need to buy premade adapters and make separate balancing rings. Perhaps like the Sopko or perhaps like Precision Kinetic or perhaps my own.

I'll see if I can locate DaveH at Precision Spindle & Accessories in Otterville.

Thanks!

 

[Susquatch]

The only thing to remember is that it all needs to be cut in a single setup. Polishing the taper is kinder to your adapters, but not necessary.You want solid, concentric contact, for the best balance, so the bluing is a great approach.

I didn't realize it had to be done in a single setup. I prolly would have learned that the hard way..... I'd much rather not learn things the hard way. So great advice!

 

[RobinHood]

Here is a write up of how I made my grinding wheel adapter.

Grinding Wheel Adapter(s)

My surface grinder came with just one wheel adapter. It has no provision for static balancing. I want to be able to balance. After watching Steve Summers and Stefan Gotteswinter make their own, I decided to give it a shot myself. I figured I would start with the easy parts first and work myself...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[RobinHood]

Single set-up machining is not required if you make a mounting arbour first which you can then use to turn / grind between centers.

This same arbour is used in the static balancing of the wheels. So no real extra work as one needs a way to support the mounted wheel on the balancer anyway.

 

[Ian Moss]

I talked to Bill at Sopko a few days ago. His price for the adapters was not outrageous but the balancing arbour was.

Your advice on the adapters is good, and since they are not out of reach maybe that's what I should do. But I confess that I had wanted to make ones that had balancing designed right in. I don't feel comfortable drilling the stone even though others here do. So maybe I need to buy premade adapters and make separate balancing rings. Perhaps like the Sopko or perhaps like Precision Kinetic or perhaps my own.

I'll see if I can locate DaveH at Precision Spindle & Accessories in Otterville.

Thanks!

I have never felt comfortable drilling stones either. Sounds like you missed my earlier comments about adding five minute epoxy to both sides of the stone on the "side" that is light when balancing, then removing some epoxy with a sanding drum on a dremel tool or some other way until the stone balances. The epoxy bonds well to the stone and does not weaken it. In some instances it may be a better balance than can be made with the balancing adapters because all of the correction does not happen on one "side" of the stone. It is more balanced in a dynamic spin.

 

[Susquatch]

Here is a write up of how I made my grinding wheel adapter.

Grinding Wheel Adapter(s)

My surface grinder came with just one wheel adapter. It has no provision for static balancing. I want to be able to balance. After watching Steve Summers and Stefan Gotteswinter make their own, I decided to give it a shot myself. I figured I would start with the easy parts first and work myself...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Thank you! I didn't see that on my own and would have missed it!

 

[Susquatch]

Single set-up machining is not required if you make a mounting arbour first which you can then use to turn / grind between centers.

This same arbour is used in the static balancing of the wheels. So no real extra work as one needs a way to support the mounted wheel on the balancer anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean, but perhaps after I read your thread I will know enough to understand your comment.

 

[Susquatch]

I have never felt comfortable drilling stones either. Sounds like you missed my earlier comments about adding five minute epoxy to both sides of the stone on the "side" that is light when balancing, then removing some epoxy with a sanding drum on a dremel tool or some other way until the stone balances. The epoxy bonds well to the stone and does not weaken it. In some instances it may be a better balance than can be made with the balancing adapters because all of the correction does not happen on one "side" of the stone. It is more balanced in a dynamic spin.

Actually I did see it. I was thinking that if I tried it I would use devcon plastic steel instead of 5 minute though. The devcon is heavier and stronger than any of the 5 minute epoxies.

First I'd like to try a balancing ring. They have the advantage that you can change balance as needed plus or minus on an ongoing basis.

I had also thought if I made my own ring I could swipe your double sided idea.

I love to experiment but sooner or later I run out of fuel and have to land and do something practical. That's prolly when I'll mix some epoxy...... LOL.

 

[Chipper5783]

Sopko makes wheel arbors with provision for balancing. When I priced them, the were much more $ than the conventional wheel arbors. After talking to Bill (Sopko) and DaveH, the balance hubs really were not necessary in the conventional surface grinder application.

How to adjust the balance of a wheel for a surface grinder is certainly a whole nother topic. There seem to be several approaches. The approach I took was to mount the wheel, dress it - then static balance on the shop built arbor. I agree that drilling a wheel seems violent, like you - I chose not to. My approach was to grind out depressions on the sides of the wheel (taking a little from each side). I used the cheap diamond burrs from PA - they start out really eating the wheel, they don’t last too long - but long enough for what I was doing. The initial balance of the wheel should not be horrible (I did not need to remove very much material). I keep meaning to balance it again after dressing it again. I have since used the SG fair amount, dressed the wheel numerous times, but have not played with, or even checked, the balance.

 

[Susquatch]

Sopko makes wheel arbors with provision for balancing. When I priced them, the were much more $ than the conventional wheel arbors. After talking to Bill (Sopko) and DaveH, the balance hubs really were not necessary in the conventional surface grinder application.

How to adjust the balance of a wheel for a surface grinder is certainly a whole nother topic. There seem to be several approaches. The approach I took was to mount the wheel, dress it - then static balance on the shop built arbor. I agree that drilling a wheel seems violent, like you - I chose not to. My approach was to grind out depressions on the sides of the wheel (taking a little from each side). I used the cheap diamond burrs from PA - they start out really eating the wheel, they don’t last too long - but long enough for what I was doing. The initial balance of the wheel should not be horrible (I did not need to remove very much material). I keep meaning to balance it again after dressing it again. I have since used the SG fair amount, dressed the wheel numerous times, but have not played with, or even checked, the balance.

Great stuff with lots to think about. It's great that so many people have found so many different ways to balance or even not balance their grinding wheels.

A long career of R&D has molded my thinking to be different from most. I'd like to believe that I am open minded enough to consider a wide variety of alternatives before adopting one, yet I know I also have biases. Biases are always dangerous but almost impossible to avoid because human survival has depended on them. In a very real way, we have evolved to be biased and it's engrained in our DNA.

I take the suggestions of my fellow members very seriously even when they don't align with my biases. Some more than others. But my R&D history still insists that I identify alternatives and experiment as appropriate to guide my final decision making. Sometimes the drive to experiment takes priority over getting the job done and sometimes it becomes the job itself - ie experimenting just for experimenting's own sake.

I have not even remotely come to any conclusions about balancing yet - I dont even know if it is needed on my small machine let alone how best to do it. Right now it produces an amazing finish even though the wheel wasn't balanced or dressed! But there is a visible patina on the surface that I think is probably caused by some minor vibration. I just cannot feel it or measure it. It's just there. I'll only know if I balance the wheel and try again.

Does it matter? Probably not.

Do I want to know? Yes I do.

Is it worth making a balancing arbour? Probably not, but I'm gunna do it anyway.

Am I crazy? You folks can all be the judge and jury for that!

All that can wait a while though. Right now my first priority is to get seed in the ground.

Based on inputs I am currently planning to cut the balance arbour on my lathe and resist the temptation to use my Surface Grinder to make it "pretty". Lots of time to noodle choice of steel, balance arbour design, cutting process, etc.