Help identifying an old lathe?

[G-wpg]

Hi All,

This is my first post, and I hope it is appropriate. I am very new to metal machining, and for the first time I venture out of drill press and hand file type of things. So, I bought an old mini lathe. It is missing any auto feed, but it has a chuck (for which I cannot get any keys, they seem to be 7.5 mm hex) and a 1/4" tool post.

Could you please help identifying it? My hope is to find manuals and parts for the thing. Thanks !

 

[francist]

Not much to need a manual for, there are no gears of any kind to worry about so it’s pretty much just pulley ratios to calculate. My guess is it’s been converted from flat belt to v-belt for that age of machine so it’s a bit of a hybrid now. Interesting ways — one of each flat and prismatic. Don’t know that I’ve seen that before, might be a unique identifier if you want to chase it.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/ Is a good place to start, lots of pictures to sift through. My guess is American with the hand wheels arranged as they are. BTW -searching for anything using “mini-lathe” in regards to an old machine won’t yield you anything. That’s a new term and fairly specific to the 7xx, 8xx, etc import lathes from places like Grizzly, etc. Yours would be better called a bench lathe.

 

[trlvn]

I could be wrong but I think you are missing a "rocker" from the lantern tool post. It is a half-moon shape piece of steel that sits under the tool holder and above the washer. The washer should have a matching 'dish' shape. It allows you to angle the tool holder so as to get the tip of the cutting tool perfectly on the centre height of the spindle. Usually, that makes the tool bit tilt up towards the work slightly which a desirable cutting angle, in most cases.

Cool looking old lathe! Looks like babbit bearings? Any play?

Craig

 

[G-wpg]

I could be wrong but I think you are missing a "rocker" from the lantern tool post. It is a half-moon shape piece of steel that sits under the tool holder and above the washer. The washer should have a matching 'dish' shape.

Craig

Yes, it just got two flat washers . I tried to add shims under the cutting bit to bring it to the right height and have no "nubs" when facing the small aluminum bar. There could be some play; I just don't know how to figure this. I have so far only tried the spindle and chuck if it is concentric, which it seems to be.

 

[G-wpg]

Thanks for the link! Will try to look for bench lathes there. I couldn't find any makers' plagues or serials on it (except the "Armstrong Bros" on the tool holder; which perhaps can be a separate thing from the rest).

Not much to need a manual for, there are no gears of any kind to worry about so it’s pretty much just pulley ratios to calculate. My guess is it’s been converted from flat belt to v-belt for that age of machine so it’s a bit of a hybrid now. Interesting ways — one of each flat and prismatic. Don’t know that I’ve seen that before, might be a unique identifier if you want to chase it.

Erm. I am so new to the lathes that I might need a manual for such obvious things like, how did they remove or change the chucks back then? Were MTn known (for adding some cheap mini-lathe three jaw one) or can collets (and what kind) be installed somehow to this thing? etc.

 

[YYCHM]

If you figure the chuck key needs to be a 7.5mm hex key try a 9/32 hex key or file down 5/16 hex key. I'm sure your spindle is threaded, so you should be able to spin the chuck off CCW when viewed from the front. Then you can assess the spindle size and thread and try to find a suitable 3J or chuck back plate.

What's the swing (approx twice the distance from the center of the chuck to the bed) and max distance from chuck face to tailstock quill?

 

[francist]

am so new to the lathes that I might need a manual for such obvious things like, how did they remove or change the chucks back then?

Yeah, a good place to start is getting the chuck separated from the spindle which hopefully won’t give you too much trouble. You should then be able to see what might be available for chucks or collet adapters. You can’t really get far without knowing that first. I’m not sure what “MTn” means but I’m going to take a stab that you mean Morse tapers? Yes they were around, and that should also present itself when you get the chuck off. I doubt it will be very big, maybe a 2 for the headstock or at best 3 with one size down in the tailstock quill.

Another good place to get aquainted with things is “How to Run a Lathe” put out by Southbend. There are many versions starting from around 1914 through to present day but any of the older ones would be useful for you to read through and learn the parts and tools. Here’s a link to a 1964 version you can read or download for free at Vintage Machinery if you want. It’s in two parts so make sure you read both. It covers a lot of ground in a small publication.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=17726

 

[Dabbler]

So a few places to start: You need to turn a steel round so it fits the tool post, then slice it to be a segment with about .200 ears so it fits like this... It can be soft steel. The originals were not hardened.

You can buy a 7.5 mm Hex Allen key to work the chuck.

You can determine the diameter by cutting some paper circles with a compass and scissors until you get a good fit. If you are in Calgary one of us can help out in person. (or you could bring your tool post to one of our shops to have your wedge made...

 

[G-wpg]

If you figure the chuck key needs to be a 7.5mm hex key try a 9/32 hex key or file down 5/16 hex key. I'm sure your spindle is threaded, so you should be able to spin the chuck off CCW when viewed from the front. Then you can assess the spindle size and thread and try to find a suitable 3J or chuck back plate.

What's the swing (approx twice the distance from the center of the chuck to the bed) and max distance from chuck face to tailstock quill?

The Swing is 3.5 inch, and span between the centres is about 26 inches.

I could not find 7.5mm key anywhere, they seem to be unicorn species, so I did file down a 5/16th key. After trying to center something in the chuck, I had to clean its face to see the lines better. It turned out to have a small letters "The WatsonMFG, Toledo" and seems to be exactly the chuck from the very bottom of http://www.lathes.co.uk/babygrand/ . The lathe however looks not at all like Watson's lathe.

Is the thread for that particular chuck known?

I could not remove the chuck. May be a custom pin key is needed to unscrew it?

 

[YYCHM]

I could not remove the chuck. May be a custom pin key is needed to unscrew it?

What do you mean by a custom pin key?

 

[G-wpg]

Another good place to get aquainted with things is “How to Run a Lathe” put out by Southbend. There are many versions starting from around 1914 through to present day but any of the older ones would be useful for you to read through and learn the parts and tools. Here’s a link to a 1964 version you can read or download for free at Vintage Machinery if you want. It’s in two parts so make sure you read both. It covers a lot of ground in a small publication.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=17726

Thank you very much for the books link!

 

[G-wpg]

What do you mean by a custom pin key?

Something similar to the two-pin wrench used on angle grinders, but bigger?

 

[YYCHM]

Something similar to the two-pin wrench used on angle grinders, but bigger?

It's gonna take some oomph to get something that old to spin loose. Maybe soaking in penetrating oil, and some heat perhaps.

I had to resort to this after an ooops with my 4J and it didn't have 40 years of gunk in it's spindle threads.

For a start though, just measure your spindle OD behind the chuck collar and that will tell us if you have any hope of finding another chuck or backing plate for it.