Drill chuck recommendation

[van123d]

When I got my mill this past winter a friend of mine who was retiring gave me some old tooling of his that was in excess after setting up his own home shop for retirement. This included a Golden Goose ball bearing keyless chuck.

Well I had a project that needed an accurately drilled hole for a very fine thread tap. So I bought a reamer for the hole size. Started with a centre drill then drilled it 0.010 undersized. To my surprise the reamer just fell through the hole. I was luckily able to save the part by going up a size.

It turns out that the chuck has 0.014” TIR when measured on the shaft of a carbide end mill close to the jaws.

I pulled the chuck apart and the jaws are damaged, and just measuring on the chuck body itself gives me 0.006”TIR.

So I am at the point where I do not think it is worth investing the money into an Asian drill chuck to try and improve its performance. So I am now in the market for a new drill chuck and looking for some advice from those of you with more experience.

My mill is a First Bridgeport clone, R8 taper. I prefer the convenience of keyless chuck but am fine with keyed if it gives better accuracy.

Looking at KBC tools I see Jacobs keyed chucks or Rohm keyless chucks. Open to other alternatives as well.

Which would you recommend and what taper should it be? 6JT, 33JT, etc.

Hoping to stay under $350 if possible

 

[Former Member]

Consider the chucks from Accusize, way lower cost but quality to match the higher priced units.

I have significantly less drill bit slippage on the Keyless compared to the keyed. This includes Jacob brand chucks.

 

[SomeGuy]

I picked up these a couple months back, reasonably happy with them for under $100:

 

[DPittman]

I know someone that also had a golden goose chuck and was pleased with it. However I would agree that it would not be worth trying to fix given the low price alternatives that are out there.
I now have a "Chum Power" titanium jaw keyless chuck and have been very pleased with it so far. I have never had an "Albrecht" or similar high end chuck so maybe I don't know what I am missing.

 

[LenVW]

If you want a high-end ‘Albrecht’ (you can get the medium size) up to 3/8” for $400.

There are several chucks that are accurate and a lower price point,
see the recommendations above from . . .
@Degen
@SomeGuy

 

[PeterT]

"Chum Power" titanium jaw keyless chuck

I suspect everyone knows but just in case. When the Asian marketers say titanium regarding tooling, they likely mean titanium nitride ceramic coating (typically that gold or tan color) for hardness & wear resistance. Not titanium as in machined from the solid alloy. Not taking anything away from these chucks. Its still a bit hit & miss but many are great value & very good runout specs. My Taiwanese chuck has the same low runout as my (USA made) Jacobs precision at ~ 1/3 the cost at the time. Now how long it stays that way over time & usage or what the +/- tolerance window of the next chuck is maybe another matter. It matters more on small size drill.

 

[Tom Kitta]

I have some used chucks in Calgary. You can choose TIR of your choice.

You would need to get R8 to JT arbor yourself. I have only MT or NMTB40.

If you like Accusize stuff just do not buy from them but any other Chinese reseller and save some $$$. Equipment is the same but price is lower.

 

[DPittman]

I suspect everyone knows but just in case. When the Asian marketers say titanium regarding tooling, they likely mean titanium nitride ceramic coating (typically that gold or tan color) for hardness & wear resistance. Not titanium as in machined from the solid alloy.

Yes I should have mentioned that the "titanium" claim wasn't a big factor in my buying decision for the reasons you stated. I purchased an integral shank chuck and that was more of a factor in my purchase decision as I think that helps reduce runout.

 

[thestelster]

It's kinda funny, sad really. One of the characteristics of Titanium nitride coatings on cutters is to reduce friction. And here, they go and put it on the jaws? Talk about slippage. If you look at most endmills with coatings, its only on the flutes. The shanks are bare. You can even get Albrecht drill chucks with diamond dust empregnated onto the jaws to get a better grip on carbide drill bits.

 

[van123d]

Thanks everyone. I ordered the accusize chuck. I have gotten a couple of things from them in the past and have been happy with them so far.

Tom - thank you for the generous offer. For now I will try the accusize one and see how it performs. Yes I could save a few bucks more by ordering direct from China but the price is already very reasonable. Through Amazon the shipping is free and will be here Monday with no unknown customs fees. If the measured performance doesn’t meet advertised it should be much easier dealing with Amazon than unknown supplier on Ali.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will report the measured runout of the new chuck when it arrives.

 

[SomeGuy]

Thanks everyone. I ordered the accusize chuck. I have gotten a couple of things from them in the past and have been happy with them so far.

Tom - thank you for the generous offer. For now I will try the accusize one and see how it performs. Yes I could save a few bucks more by ordering direct from China but the price is already very reasonable. Through Amazon the shipping is free and will be here Monday with no unknown customs fees. If the measured performance doesn’t meet advertised it should be much easier dealing with Amazon than unknown supplier on Ali.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will report the measured runout of the new chuck when it arrives.

You can also contact accusize directly, their support is pretty good.

 

[LenVW]

Thanks everyone. I ordered the accusize chuck. I have gotten a couple of things from them in the past and have been happy with them so far.

Tom - thank you for the generous offer. For now I will try the accusize one and see how it performs. Yes I could save a few bucks more by ordering direct from China but the price is already very reasonable. Through Amazon the shipping is free and will be here Monday with no unknown customs fees. If the measured performance doesn’t meet advertised it should be much easier dealing with Amazon than unknown supplier on Ali.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will report the measured runout of the new chuck when it arrives.

This spiked my curiosity, so I got out the Dial Indicator and checked the spindle on my mini mill from King Canada. I just chucked up a 3/8” Dowel Pin and TIR for a full revolution was .0015”.
I can live with that for the time being.

 

[Susquatch]

This spiked my curiosity, so I got out the Dial Indicator and checked the spindle on my mini mill from King Canada. I just chucked up a 3/8” Dowel Pin and TIR for a full revolution was .0015”.
I can live with that for the time being.

How did you check your spindle with a dowel pin without a chuck or a collet?

Or did you mean you checked the stacked spindle runout with a chuck or collet and a pin?

@van123d - you will find that many folks on here have agreed to disagree on Accusize. I'm one of those who likes them. I've bought lots of stuff from them that I'm very happy with.

I usually buy accusize from Amazon for the free shipping and free returns and convenience. But like others have said, if you are not happy with whatever you get you can either return and exchange with Amazon, or call Accusize direct. They have ALWAYS made me happy - even when the problem was my fault.

I will almost always choose Accusize over Ali even if I think there is good reason to believe it's the same stuff. My quality of life is better paying the extra to get it in two days with no worries about returns.

Which chuck did you get? Looking forward to seeing your review of it.

My experience with chuck runout is kinda weird. I have a Gerardi Spa chuck that came with my used milll - not quite the reputation of Albrecht, but up there. I was shocked at its runout which I thought wasn't that good till I started seeing the runout of other members chucks. Now I think it's pretty darn good - big attitude adjustment for me.

If you have an R8 ER collet system, and you need better runout, you might consider drilling with that instead. If you don't have that, I'd consider getting one....... from Accusize LOL. I think ER32 is the most popular in the R8 spindle class but I'd easily be convinced otherwise.

 

[van123d]

I bought the same accusize chuck and arbor that SomeGuy posted above.

Initial thoughts are that it looks decent. The feel is a bit gritty. Definitely does not feel as nice as the Taiwanese chuck I am replacing. I will have to open it up to clean and relube it which will likely help some.

Initial measurement is much improved over my existing chuck but I was hoping for better. I am getting between 0.0045”-0.005” TIR when measured on a few different carbide endmills in the jaws. I get about 0.002” TIR when measuring on the body of the chuck.

I guess this is about what I can expect. Stated accuracy for the chuck alone is 0.0055”, I was just hoping for better.

This is generally in line with my experience with Chinese suppliers. Usually right at the extreme of their specification limit where as with more reputable sources they are usually well within their limits.

This will be good enough for my purposes but I will add an ER32 collet system in the future.

 

[PeterT]

I would bet that the grit you feel is not leftover abrasive, its likely rough-ish finishing on the scroll threads / jaws / inner cone etc. May well be a different model but I've seen a similar one apart & it was rather underwhelming. They did a better job on the outside vs. the inside where it counts.

PM sells a nice line of precision chucks with integrated shank if you want to spend your money once. I'm pretty sure its the same one I have under a different name. They sell on Ebay too & have sales if you watch. Higher cost than Accusize obviously but just to give you reference, their definition of precision is +/-.00078″ runout which is a bit more than what I measured.

1/8-5/8 Ultra Precision Keyless Drill Chuck – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com

full line

Search Results for “drill chuck” – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com

 

[Former Member]

I can say the one I bought from Accusize is smooth as butter. Earlier this year I met with one of the sales men at their shop (because I ordered the wrong lathe chuck mounting, they exchanged no problem, no fees no problems). He did state that they constantly upgrading their suppliers as they find issues (based on your feedback).

Overall, my recommendation is that if you have issue contact them they are extremely helpful in my opinion.

To be fair they are about 20-40mins away depending on traffic.

 

[Chicken lights]

How did you check your spindle with a dowel pin without a chuck or a collet?

Or did you mean you checked the stacked spindle runout with a chuck or collet and a pin?

@van123d - you will find that many folks on here have agreed to disagree on Accusize. I'm one of those who likes them. I've bought lots of stuff from them that I'm very happy with.

I usually buy accusize from Amazon for the free shipping and free returns and convenience. But like others have said, if you are not happy with whatever you get you can either return and exchange with Amazon, or call Accusize direct. They have ALWAYS made me happy - even when the problem was my fault.

I will almost always choose Accusize over Ali even if I think there is good reason to believe it's the same stuff. My quality of life is better paying the extra to get it in two days with no worries about returns.

Which chuck did you get? Looking forward to seeing your review of it.

My experience with chuck runout is kinda weird. I have a Gerardi Spa chuck that came with my used milll - not quite the reputation of Albrecht, but up there. I was shocked at its runout which I thought wasn't that good till I started seeing the runout of other members chucks. Now I think it's pretty darn good - big attitude adjustment for me.

If you have an R8 ER collet system, and you need better runout, you might consider drilling with that instead. If you don't have that, I'd consider getting one....... from Accusize LOL. I think ER32 is the most popular in the R8 spindle class but I'd easily be convinced otherwise.

If I wanted to check the TIR on my drill press- what would I use and how would I do that

I have a spotting drill that should have a fairly round shaft, and a dial indicator. Just chuck it and rotate the spindle by hand, watching the dial indicator?

 

[Susquatch]

If I wanted to check the TIR on my drill press- what would I use and how would I do that

I have a spotting drill that should have a fairly round shaft, and a dial indicator. Just chuck it and rotate the spindle by hand, watching the dial indicator?

Yes. Just mount the indicator base magnet on the spindle housing.

If your drill press is sturdy, you can also put the magnet on your table or drill press vice. Just make sure they are sturdy. If the needle moves around as you press on the table or vice, you will get a false reading on the runout.

Put the indicator needle as close to the chuck jaws as you can.

You can also check axial alignment by putting the needle further away from the Jaws.

 

[Chicken lights]

Yes. Just mount the indicator base magnet on the spindle housing.

If your drill press is sturdy, you can also put the magnet on your table or drill press vice. Just make sure they are sturdy. If the needle moves around as you press on the table or vice, you will get a false reading on the runout.

Put the indicator needle as close to the chuck jaws as you can.

You can also check axial alignment by putting the needle further away from the Jaws.

You should roughly get the same reading by the jaws as well as 3-4” down on a shaft? (dependant on tooling size and rigidity)

 

[Susquatch]

You should roughly get the same reading by the jaws as well as 3-4” down on a shaft? (dependant on tooling size and rigidity)

Yes, you "should", but you likely won't. Any axial misalignment will show up as a wobble at the tip of the tool. It's pretty hard to get both centering and axial alignment perfect.

Theoretically, it's possible to have axial alignment correct for runout, but only at one very particular length or distance. I would think that's almost never the case. 99% of the time the alignment is going to be divergent. Not only that but the closer you get to center on the chuck itself, the harder it gets to have convergent axial alignment.

All this assumes your gauge pin is perfect. That's not universally true.