Craftex milling machine

[trlvn]

I snagged a Craftex mill-drill via an online auction last night. A model B1977, it seems to be from 2002 or so and includes a digital readout and power on the X axis. With "Buyers Premium" and HST, the price was OK but not gloatable. I'm also going to have to rent a vehicle and an engine hoist to get it home so that's going to add the cost.

Here's a picture from the auction listing:

Pickup is on Saturday so I'll probably be posting more questions and whatnot after that.

BTW, it is supposed to rain on Saturday so I'm planning to rent a cargo van. If I take the machine off the base, it will fit into the van upright, won't it? The manual says the height is 43.5 inches but somehow it looks taller.

Craig

 

[YYCHM]

So what did it end up costing you (less moving it)? DRO and x-axis power feed. NICE!

 

[trlvn]

My winning bid was $1,002--apparently that "2" made all the difference! But with buyer's premium and HST, the total was almost $1,300.

I really thought the bidding on the mill was going to go to $1,300 and maybe past $1,500. OTOH, there is no proper milling vise and just a single collet (mounted). (Hmm, wrench??) Earlier in the auction, there were lots with a collet set, boring head and a drill chuck on R8. Since I didn't expect to win the mill, I didn't even bid on these. And they generally went for near the price of new stuff!

Craig

 

[Tom Kitta]

It feels to me that in ON you paid a bit too much for it. Bidding at $1500 would put it into new category for this mill sans DRO / power - i.e. you could just get a new one for that price (with fees included).

In AB similar mill drill on auction with same stand about same age went for around 830 CAD with 20% fee (5% GST + 15% auction) that makes it under $100. It didn't have power feed and Y axis needed work BUT in AB you pay premium for machines. New DRO and power on X would put this above what you paid but they would be new and machine is in AB.

Similar vintage mill drill is on Kijiji here for a while and they want $1500. Through it has no power feed nor a dro - but no one touched it for over a month.

So I think you are right that you paid "OK" but nowhere close to "I got a great deal".

You paid about 50c on a $1 vs. all new machine. I have a mill listed on sale for around 25c to a $ and its a 1995.

 

[trlvn]

Ontario prices may be higher than you think. This is the third RF-30 type mill that has sold in the last 3 weeks. The most comparable one, a Craftex B1976, went last week for a little more money ($1,050 hammer price + BP + tax). Included power feed but did not have a DRO. Also appeared to have been used in home-based business so I was more concerned about wear.

The third one was quite a bit older (circa 35 years old), included a DRO but didn't have power feed. The asking price was $850 but I don't know what they actually got for it. There were multiple guys looking it over. And it would have been a nightmare to get it out of the basement! Narrow stairs and multiple tight turns.

I've been keeping an eye out for 6 months or more and these are the only 3 mill/drills I've seen offered in that time.

BTW, there was a mini-mill also offered in last night's auction. The pictures clearly show that it was heavily rusted. I attended the preview and the X and Y would barely move. Could not figure out if the Z was frozen or locked. I'm guessing that it was left unprotected because something is broken. Nevertheless I think the final bid was $232. I think someone is going to be crying on Saturday when they see how bad it is!

Craig

 

[Tom Kitta]

That is very interesting - I always though ON was at least 20% less then AB but you are proof that it is not so - at least not in the small machine sector. Good thing to know. Guess I am not going to go to ON to pick up some machines anytime soon.

 

[YYCHM]

What's this buyers premium about? Is it a fixed value?

I think you got a pretty decent deal.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Auctions used to make $$$ only on seller fees. Some time ago - like 10 or 20 years they figured they charge the buyer as well...

Buyer fees are usually like 10% or 15% here in AB plus GST of 5%. This is for machinery - for cars or maybe large machines you may get a flat fee buyers fee of say $250.

Seller fees are all over the map. You can have huge seller fee of 30% when dealing with small items < $100. Or more reasonable 13% for items that sell over 2500. Or flat fee of say $250 per car.

Items you purchase at auctions come usually without any guarantees. Through some have successfully sued auction houses for not disclosing some know facts when selling vehicles. As a rule you should never pay the same at an action vs. private sale - always less - especially a lot less for a car. Auctions are filled with "mines" - it is safer to buy private party but expect to pay more.

 

[Chicken lights]

I snagged a Craftex mill-drill via an online auction last night. A model B1977, it seems to be from 2002 or so and includes a digital readout and power on the X axis. With "Buyers Premium" and HST, the price was OK but not gloatable. I'm also going to have to rent a vehicle and an engine hoist to get it home so that's going to add the cost.

Here's a picture from the auction listing:

View attachment 5612

Pickup is on Saturday so I'll probably be posting more questions and whatnot after that.

BTW, it is supposed to rain on Saturday so I'm planning to rent a cargo van. If I take the machine off the base, it will fit into the van upright, won't it? The manual says the height is 43.5 inches but somehow it looks taller.

Craig

Need a hand dragging this home?

 

[YYCHM]

Auctions used to make $$$ only on seller fees. Some time ago - like 10 or 20 years they figured they charge the buyer as well...

Buyer fees are usually like 10% or 15% here in AB plus GST of 5%. This is for machinery - for cars or maybe large machines you may get a flat fee buyers fee of say $250.

Seller fees are all over the map. You can have huge seller fee of 30% when dealing with small items < $100. Or more reasonable 13% for items that sell over 2500. Or flat fee of say $250 per car.

Items you purchase at auctions come usually without any guarantees. Through some have successfully sued auction houses for not disclosing some know facts when selling vehicles. As a rule you should never pay the same at an action vs. private sale - always less - especially a lot less for a car. Auctions are filled with "mines" - it is safer to buy private party but expect to pay more.

Ok..... I think I'll stay the H away from auctions then. Sounds to risky for me thanks

 

[trlvn]

Need a hand dragging this home?

Thanks for the offer but I think I'm OK. I've got my son coming to provide the muscle but with the engine hoist we shouldn't have to work too hard. I hope. More concerned that it may be a zoo trying to get in and out. It is a narrow lane with limited room to back up to the garage.

Craig

 

[Chicken lights]

Thanks for the offer but I think I'm OK. I've got my son coming to provide the muscle but with the engine hoist we shouldn't have to work too hard. I hope. More concerned that it may be a zoo trying to get in and out. It is a narrow lane with limited room to back up to the garage.

Craig

Sounds good. Don’t be shy if you need a hand if plans fall through

 

[trlvn]

Ok..... I think I'll stay the H away from auctions then. Sounds to risky for me thanks

There is risk in everything. Doesn't everybody have a Kijiji story where the seller turned out to be an unsavoury character or you had a strong suspicion that items being sold didn't legally belong to the seller? Etc.

Online auctions have really surged in the past few years around here. If you check the pictures carefully and don't let yourself get caught up in 'auction fever' during the close, you can snag some decent deals and avoid over paying.

The only thing I regret buying in the last year was a milling vise I paid $60 for. I might still be able to fix it. I'll be much more careful if I ever get interested in an item offered through that auctioneer again, though. I never did determine if the damage was actually visible in the online pictures or not. I certainly didn't recognize it during the auction and I guess the backup bidder didn't either!

OTOH, I used to attend live auctions. At those, you often had little time to size up the condition of an item. And if you spent too much time looking, you were likely to get other interested and then the price much get run up. There aren't many auctioneers that actually know much about tools so you certainly couldn't count on them to point out flaws. Plus you got to spend all day hanging around in the sun waiting for them to get to the items you're interested in.

Craig

 

[Tom Kitta]

Yeah Kijiji has its risks. I have my horror stories. Even buying new can be a problem sometimes! Heck I am waiting over 2 months for a milling table I ordered from KMS. That taken the $$$ and made "special order"... 2 months. Any moment now.

 

[kevin.decelles]

I love live auctions. Adrenaline rush!

Sometimes I feel bad for the seller, some poor widow or elderly couple with health issues.....poorly advertised , low turnout and great deals because there is no bidding competition

Or...... all the idiots in a too small space paying over retail for 20 year old welders.........



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[trlvn]

Many, many thanks to @Chicken lights for helping me load the mill/drill at the auction site. And especially for pointing out that we could just slide it off the table and onto the lift gate of the truck. Duh! I would have screwed around for an extra hour trying to safely lift the machine off and down to the ground.

No pictures from loading and unloading the machine as it was busy at the pickup and I wasn't going to peel my gloves off to fool with the phone. It was also insanely hot but thankfully the rain came long after the machine was safely in my garage.

It is a Craftex B1977 (September 2008) with 28.7" by 8.3" table. "1-1/2" HP motor drawing 12 amps at 240 volts. I think I get 240V power to the garage temporarily by running an extension cord from the laundry room. BT-3 digital readout by Shooting Star Technology (with manual). Power feed by Align (with manual). It was detached for transport.

Don't have a proper milling vise. There is a single 1/4" R8 collet in the machine so I need more tool holding. It came with a Busy Bee clamping set.

Did get some other bits & bobs with it but not anything exciting.

Craig

 

[trlvn]

BTW, the manual says almost nothing about lubrication. How am I supposed to get oil into the X ways? Should I be using Way Oil like for the lathe? Same for the Y travel. What about the spindle and column?

I'm guessing the motor and the idler pulley are all sealed ball bearings and don't require regular lube.

Craig

 

[YYCHM]

NICE! What is the thing mounted on the front of the table that looks like a bent feed screw?

 

[Tom Kitta]

You can oil the bottom of the table with way oil. In bigger mills there is lubrication reservoir and I put in sae 30 non detergent oil in it so it goes nice through little tubes.

Spindle probably has an oilier cup - use same as for drill press column... after all you have a ... drill press. Its to lubricate the movement of the spindle housing when drilling holes. There may be additional cups for bearings.

for column you can use heavier oil so it sticks.

 

[trlvn]

NICE! What is the thing mounted on the front of the table that looks like a bent feed screw?

Believe that's part of the DRO.

Craig