Tool Collet Holder

[jcdammeyer]

Along the theme of the ER40 collet nut I have a square and a hex ER32 collet holder sitting in my AliExpress shopping cart.

But then I started thinking are these really needed if one has a 4th axis with ER32 collet holder already mounted on the mill. Something like this:

Is there really then a need for the vise mounted version?

 

[PeterT]

Kind of depends on the part. The hex & square blocks are inexpensive, very quick to set up, provide a lot of setup options. Useful for just holding something (round) when doing secondary ops, either horizontal or vertical or at angle using angle blocks. Or flip & rotate to get the benefit of X sides like milling. Or when you have a batch of similar parts to do the same op sequence. Or for holding something in a lathe, say an eccentric relative spindle center (but the stock part always goes in the same).

The powered one looks CNC-ish, for sure even more useful but also more setup for one-offs or small batch count.

 

[combustable herbage]

I am with Peter I bought both when I got started and have used them both a lot for different applications another use for your collets as well.

 

[Former Member]

Be it a 5C or ER system fixed block holders they are extremely useful as you can set up compound setups at fix angles quickly and easily.

I have CNC and have yet to add the fourth axis though it is in the plan. I bought blocks first (mind you for 5C) as they also have their advantages.

Fun part of machining is you get to collect different holders (sigh). Last count I have R8's, 2 types of ER sizes, 5C a full set.

 

[PeterT]

The only issue with the ER block that I can see is the tightening nut is proud of the block clamping width, which means the nut has to extend beyond the vise jaws.
Its been a while since I've had my 5C in my hands but I think by using the slimmer tightening ring, the block can remain within the jaws without interfering. I don't think the 5C cam type tightener will work like this though. I would not go out & get a 5C set for this reason, but just pointing something out

 

[whydontu]

I make fittings to adapt industrial valves to motor drives. Typical adapter is a 4” long piece of 1“ round bar, square spigot on one end, slot other end. Square spigot is done with the collet horizontal, slot with collet vertical. Same cutter for both operations. Piece of cake with the collet block, impossible with the 4th-axis rig.

 

[Susquatch]

I'm with the crowd that says both have their place. I have and frequently use a 5C spin Indexer, a chuck on a universal dividing head, two sizes of ER collets and chucks, and two each of hex and square collet blocks. I got both pairs together so I had a hope in hell of getting them the same, and so they are. The nice thing about having the collet blocks is being able to setup more complex operations and working on two parts at the same time.

 

[jcdammeyer]

I make fittings to adapt industrial valves to motor drives. Typical adapter is a 4” long piece of 1“ round bar, square spigot on one end, slot other end. Square spigot is done with the collet horizontal, slot with collet vertical. Same cutter for both operations. Piece of cake with the collet block, impossible with the 4th-axis rig.

Good point. Thanks for that feedback.
John

 

[whydontu]

I'm with the crowd that says both have their place. I have and frequently use a 5C spin Indexer, a chuck on a universal dividing head, two sizes of ER collets and chucks, and two each of hex and square collet blocks. I got both pairs together so I had a hope in hell of getting them the same, and so they are. The nice thing about having the collet blocks is being able to setup more complex operations and working on two parts at the same time.

I also use this type of 5C indexer, but it’s always puzzled me why these don’t have mounting holes or slots in the base. Any ideas why?

 

[Susquatch]

I also use this type of 5C indexer, but it’s always puzzled me why these don’t have mounting holes or slots in the base. Any ideas why?

View attachment 25657

Not really. Someone else with broader experience than me is gunna have to answer that question.

Mine has slots for T-Nuts and it also has two blocks underneath it to fit into the T-slot groove. So your question is a good one.

Mine is not made in China? Another one of those 123 block deals?

 

[Susquatch]

I must apologize @whydontu . I was mistaken. There are no slots on the mounting pad of my spin Indexer. It does have mounting pads though.

I was correct about the T-slot alignment blocks though.

Both look added on. So the machinist I got them from must agree with you.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Not really. Someone else with broader experience than me is gunna have to answer that question.

Mine has slots for T-Nuts and it also has two blocks underneath it to fit into the T-slot groove. So your question is a good one.

Mine is not made in China? Another one of those 123 block deals?

Mine is like the one in the photo and I use the 5C collets from the lathe and the hex and square 5C collets I bought for those 'special' occasions.

I also put a piece of standard paper under it before I clamp it down. I've found that prevents it from slipping when I'm using it.

BTW. The tailstock support is from the Gingery Dividing Head project.

 

[whydontu]

So now I have to choose if tomorrow’s <mucking about in the shop> time will be spent making up a spoil board for my CNC engraver, or pulling the 5C spin indexer apart and milling some mounting slots. I thought retirement meant I wouldn’t need to be making decisions.

 

[jcdammeyer]

So now I have to choose if tomorrow’s <mucking about in the shop> time will be spent making up a spoil board for my CNC engraver, or pulling the 5C spin indexer apart and milling some mounting slots. I thought retirement meant I wouldn’t need to be making decisions.

The problem I have (and have had when thinking about it) is how big to make the darn things. If I could guarantee that I was able to make them perfectly in line with the axis of the 5C bore then I'd make the inserts so they were a firm fit in the table slot. Then just add clamps.

I guess maybe clamp a long 1" shaft in the indexer. Set the ends on V blocks raised up on 1-2-3 blocks for clearance and indicate the long shaft to be parallel to the table. Then mill the slots on the bottom.

So far it's been easier for time spent to just clamp it and tweak it until it's parallel and then use it.

 

[Susquatch]

My milling tailstock has the alignment tabs and two slots - one in the front and one in the back both in line with the alignment tabs. My universal dividing head is the same as the tailstock.

 

[Susquatch]

Some more info that may or may not be helpful.

Ive never used my spin indexer, my universal dividing head, or my tailstock with my big knee mill. Only with the mill-drill that I got them with. The bottom alignment tabs do not fit my Bridgeport t-slots which are slightly bigger than my mill-drill slots. So I'll have to make bigger ones for the bigger mill.

When I mount the spin Indexer on either mill, no t-slots will line up anyway except the one that is in line with the tabs. That's fine for the tailstock but not for the spin Indexer because there is no room on it for slots that are in line with the bottom tabs. So slots would not be of any value if alignment tabs are used. On the other hand, the flats are perfect for some levered T-slot Clamps.