Atv stripped hub

[Millwright1009]

I’ll post pics later but a buddy of mine has a stripped splines on the hub and axle. I was going to focus on new splines and get a new hub ordered but that failed before so it might again.
I couldn’t find any info on anybody doing this but my plans are to machine the hub, measure, and build the axle up to a small interference fit. Odd place for a key so I will drill a hole off centre through the axle and hub for a hammer fit dowel. If he wants he can weld it after but I don’t think it will be needed.

This is the side that needs to be removable to reinstall the axle through the diff.

 

[Millwright1009]

 

[phaxtris]

how do you intend to deal with the other end, the end that splines into the differential

 

[Millwright1009]

how do you intend to deal with the other end, the end that splines into the differential

The whole shaft seems fine. Small bend but that’s normal. The hub will be removable, just not as easy as a splined hub. Same as an electric motor coupling. .001-.0015” interference. Which are removable with heat as well

 

[phaxtris]

Gotcha, I think you will probabaly break the hub with the round key idea, all of the rotational torque will not only try to push/spin the key in the direction of rotation, but also try to cam out and away, if it doesn't shear the pin it will probabaly crack the hub as the key gets pushed out radially....there doesn't appear to be much meat there to take the extra force

There is a lot of torque at the center of the hub, way more than you would think at first, especially in the case of the tires spinning in dirt and then grabbing traction...the momentum of the tires and all

 

[Millwright1009]

Gotcha, I think you will probabaly break the hub with the round key idea, all of the rotational torque will not only try to push/spin the key in the direction of rotation, but also try to cam out and away, if it doesn't shear the pin it will probabaly crack the hub as the key gets pushed out radially....there doesn't appear to be much meat there to take the extra force

There is a lot of torque at the center of the hub, way more than you would think at first, especially in the case of the tires spinning in dirt and then grabbing traction...the momentum of the tires and all

I’m not sure what else to do with it. I guess we will see. Obviously splines don’t work, this is a common problem across all atvs

 

[phaxtris]

I wouldn't say that stripping axles out is common accross all ATVs, maybe that particular model
I've owned several, and repair them frequently, the only time I've had a similar repair was on a Honda with like 12,000k, buddy didn't want anything fancy, ended up welding the shaft to the hub or differential, I don't remember Wich

Ball joints, wheel bearings, bushings, top ends (2 stroke ATV's) are normally what I see

But that asside, try a sxs, same parts as an ATV, double the weight, talk about maintenance heavy

 

[Millwright1009]

I wouldn't say that stripping axles out is common accross all ATVs, maybe that particular model
I've owned several, and repair them frequently, the only time I've had a similar repair was on a Honda with like 12,000k, buddy didn't want anything fancy, ended up welding the shaft to the hub or differential, I don't remember Wich

Ball joints, wheel bearings, bushings, top ends (2 stroke ATV's) are normally what I see

But that asside, try a sxs, same parts as an ATV, double the weight, talk about maintenance heavy

That’s odd, this is for a Honda atv. Seems around here to be common in all Hondas, because they usually have a straight axle. Whereas other brands have gone with cv axles with fail before any splines would.

I’m not into small stuff like this. Most things I work with have atleast a 2-3 shaft. Even marine couplings I’ve seen, couple shafts either with or without a singular key. Most are heated and driven on a taper. But some are hydraulically pressed with a straight shaft.

I believe if I build the axle up to 1 or 2 thou over the hub diameter with a fitted bolt, or shear pin I guess it will be adequate. Maybe weld it on afterwards if he feels necessary. This was already welded with damaged splines which failed as well.

The hub doesn’t have much meat on the front in the picture but has much more in the back. I’ll post pictures after.
If it works, good for him and me. If not then it’s back to the drawing board.
In the meantime I just bought a rotary table with dividing plates. Hopefully will have it within the next 3-4 weeks for future jobs. Shouldn’t be a problem making splines if need be

 

[phaxtris]

That’s odd, this is for a Honda atv. Seems around here to be common in all Hondas, because they usually have a straight axle. Whereas other brands have gone with cv axles with fail before any splines would.

I’m not into small stuff like this. Most things I work with have atleast a 2-3 shaft. Even marine couplings I’ve seen, couple shafts either with or without a singular key. Most are heated and driven on a taper. But some are hydraulically pressed with a straight shaft.

I believe if I build the axle up to 1 or 2 thou over the hub diameter with a fitted bolt, or shear pin I guess it will be adequate. Maybe weld it on afterwards if he feels necessary. This was already welded with damaged splines which failed as well.

The hub doesn’t have much meat on the front in the picture but has much more in the back. I’ll post pictures after.
If it works, good for him and me. If not then it’s back to the drawing board.
In the meantime I just bought a rotary table with dividing plates. Hopefully will have it within the next 3-4 weeks for future jobs. Shouldn’t be a problem making splines if need be

yea i would say what i see are broken cv's, or axle shaft's . Most of those straight axle honda's you see around here are farm or survey machines, with 6,000+k, any part on an atv is fair game for a break down with that kind of k.

before you get super excited about making your own splines you should check the hardness, most axle shafts and splined ends (including atv shafts) are induction hardened, soft splines probably wont last long

if you can build up and turn down the shaft to tight fit, then put a fillet weld on the backside (preferably not with a mig) i think that would be your best chance, at least in my opinion

a lot of the welding i see on atvs for repairs are done with 0 prep and a 110v mig welder, 'just burn through the oil' kinda stuff, i would bet the previous welding attempt may have been one of those types of repairs

 

[Millwright1009]

yea i would say what i see are broken cv's, or axle shaft's . Most of those straight axle honda's you see around here are farm or survey machines, with 6,000+k, any part on an atv is fair game for a break down with that kind of k.

before you get super excited about making your own splines you should check the hardness, most axle shafts and splined ends (including atv shafts) are induction hardened, soft splines probably wont last long

if you can build up and turn down the shaft to tight fit, then put a fillet weld on the backside (preferably not with a mig) i think that would be your best chance, at least in my opinion

a lot of the welding i see on atvs for repairs are done with 0 prep and a 110v mig welder, 'just burn through the oil' kinda stuff, i would bet the previous welding attempt may have been one of those types of repairs

It definitely wasn’t the finest weld I’ve seen that’s for sure lol. But the hub was already damaged before welding.
No shame in the atv either. I’m not sure the kms but I know the guy and a lot of those kms were hauling atleast 1/4 cord loads of wood. Through rough paths.

 

[Susquatch]

@phaxtris & @Millwright1009

The solution to stopping the hub from breaking is simple. Install a throttle limiter. Typically 20% of full throttle range is sufficient to avoid drivetrain failures....... And broken bones.

I'm not looking forward to the day my grandkids figure out that the reason my ATV is so slow is because it is throttle limited. My son watched them go one day and immediately knew what was up. I guess he knows his dad. So far he hasn't spilled the beans!

 

[phaxtris]

@Susquatch it's usually not the kids that break stuff.....and no big kid is going to put a throttle limit on his 750cc+ quad

 

[Millwright1009]

@phaxtris & @Millwright1009

The solution to stopping the hub from breaking is simple. Install a throttle limiter. Typically 20% of full throttle range is sufficient to avoid drivetrain failures....... And broken bones.

I'm not looking forward to the day my grandkids figure out that the reason my ATV is so slow is because it is throttle limited. My son watched them go one day and immediately knew what was up. I guess he knows his dad. So far he hasn't spilled the beans!

My son has a rzr 170cc, with the throttle limited to 50-60% and he still managed to crack the frame clean off in the rear, lol, chain and sprockets are in bad shape already as well.
He is 6, been driving sense he was 2.5-3 years old.

 

[Susquatch]

My son has a rzr 170cc, with the throttle limited to 50-60% and he still managed to crack the frame clean off in the rear, lol, chain and sprockets are in bad shape already as well.
He is 6, been driving sense he was 2.5-3 years old.

50-60 is not the 20 that I advocated. LOL!

 

[Susquatch]

@Susquatch it's usually not the kids that break stuff.....and no big kid is going to put a throttle limit on his 750cc+ quad

Well, this big kid did. Of course, at 75, I'm more worried about breaking my own frame than the ATV.

But your comment is what drove my earlier comment about my son's observation.

Although my post was mostly done in humour, it does have a serious side. Kids break stuff and kids get killed or badly injured. Throttle limiting is a perfectly valid way to mitigate that risk and still allow everyone to have fun.

My own ATV is mostly a work machine. I use it for picking rocks, carrying firewood, dragging tools and parts around, and general trips around the farm like checking on my crops. The throttle limiting doesn't interfere with that one iota and it gives me great peace of mind when the grandkids take off on it. I have not broken anything on it yet.

 

[phaxtris]

@Susquatch what I ment is that it's not the young kids breaking axles and doing the major damage, it's usually the teenagers and adults, it's the 30/40/50 year olds looking for excitement who have little to no experience.....or lots of experience and just like to beat the hell out of there machine

Kids get hurt on ATVs, and so do plenty of adults, nothing wrong with a throttle limiter for young kids or inexperienced riders, but there is no way your going to talk the guy with 27" tires, a snorkel and 800cc to put a throttle limiter on, and those are the guys usually breaking stuff

Personally I think people are way to complacent with ATV's because they are easy to ride on flat ground....they are crazy dangerous, add inexperience or a little bit of ego and it's a recipe for injury. 500lbs of atv rolling on top of you can do a lot of damage (I know 3 quadraplegics and 1 with a crushed ribcage/open-heart surgery from ATV incidents). I would sooner put my kid on a 50cc dirt bike than a quad (even a kids quad).

 

[DPittman]

I would sooner put my kid on a 50cc dirt bike than a quad (even a kids quad)

Same here. I have friends that had a nine year boy killed when his little atv when rolled on top of him. Tragic in every way.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Personally I think people are way to complacent with ATV's because they are easy to ride on flat ground....they are crazy dangerous, add inexperience or a little bit of ego and it's a recipe for injury. 500lbs of atv rolling on top of you can do a lot of damage (I know 3 quadraplegics and 1 with a crushed ribcage/open-heart surgery from ATV incidents). I would sooner put my kid on a 50cc dirt bike than a quad (even a kids quad).

I raced motorcycles for years. Crashed more than a few times, been flicked off the high side at over 120km/h (I still feel that one), but the worst wreck I ever had in my life was on a quad ride home from the neighbors. Innocent visit, no helmet, and a dumb mistake on the way home almost killed me. Left me with a bad concussion, and some debatable lasting effects.....And a wrecked quad.....that wasn't mine. I agree, most people are WAY too complacent on a quad (I was, and I knew better). IMO they're more dangerous than the old 3 wheelers I grew up riding. At least with the 3 wheelers you knew they were going to tip over so you respected them more. Man I miss those

My wife works in a children's emerg and far too many kids come in with some pretty serious injuries from riding them, or worse. IMO the import kid quads are the worst, too narrow, and way too high center of gravity. My kids won't get one (wife won't allow it, and I wont fight her on it), but they do have a pw80 .

Things happen fast on a quad at speed. Newer ones are way too high centered and adding liftkits and mud tires makes them even worse and more unstable, add in the power they have, and the speeds they can reach...... You can argue with the laws of physics all you want, but you can't break them.

 

[Tom O]

I hear ya, back in 2008 bastard turned left on 17th ave going towards Chestemere, induced coma for 3 days fixing everything another 3 months in extended care.
I bought a arctic cat and garmin gps and logged a lot of miles in Maclean’s one day on a narrow trail it started to slope off more than I liked I stopped got off to get a plan in my head and sat back down and it rolled on me landing 10 feet away upright on its wheels, I ride alone but luckily I saw another guy and called him over to help, I drove to my truck loaded it and drove to the hospital luckily I just cracked ribs being saved by the rear seat used as a bit of a roll bar.

 

[Millwright1009]