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Airbourne dust dangers..

GummyMonster

GummyMonster

Ken
Morning everyone,
I had found this study and information awhile ago. It doesn't directly discuss metalworkers, but most people who are mechanically talented as you folks are often work at different hobbies, pastimes.
I never realized how dangerous fine dust can be . No one ever really talked about it.
From reading this study though, it can be every bit as bad for you as asbestos.
Here it all is - http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php
- http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/beginnnerscorner.php
- http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/dc_basics.php#GoodProtection
I've seen this fellow and his research discussed numerous times on the web, and have not seen anyone try to refuting it , so I'm taking it as a factual study. You can decide what you think about it.
Ken
 
I normally don't comment on this issue as people that are worried about dust seem to be dead set in their views and dismiss contrary opinions out of hand. Or attack.

Keep in mind that Bill Pentz makes money selling...dust collection equipment.

That said, fine dust is not good for you. It is really bad for you if you are exposed to a LOT of it over a LONG period of time. As hobby crafters, very few are generating that much dust on a daily basis. Use a mask on those days when sanding. Or use a hand plane or scraper which generates zero dust. Etc.

To be clear, I totally support dust collection in commercial environments. Working all week, every week in such a shop can lead to health problems.

Allergies are a different issue. Some are, or become, sensitive to certain wood dust. Especially exotic woods. The best thing to do in such cases is stop working with stuff that causes allergic reactions.

Craig
 
If you have ever shoveled out a grain bin without a dust mask you would know what real bad dust is like. :eek: We started wearing masks back in the late 60's but never thought about them in the shop till much later. Metal grinding dust is bad.
 
6.5 Fan said:
If you have ever shoveled out a grain bin without a dust mask you would know what real bad dust is like. :eek: We started wearing masks back in the late 60's but never thought about them in the shop till much later. Metal grinding dust is bad.
Click to expand...
Ya I worked in grain elevators sucking severe dust for several years and tried to wear a mask but because they were hot and made communication hard, I didn't wear them as often as I should. Now in my shop I tend to think it just a moment or two of dust and not "enough" to worry about. Bad habits are hard to break. So far my lungs are still working surprisingly well and it's other things that are killing me. :(
 
6.5 Fan said:
If you have ever shoveled out a grain bin without a dust mask you would know what real bad dust is like.
Click to expand...
Indeed. I worked summers in a grain elevator and later in a feed mill. The elevator never had dust collection and the feed mill finally added it in the later years that I worked there. Of course, smoking was far more common then and a lot of the workers smoked constantly. I'm sure the cigarette filters were really helping! ;)

Craig
 
trlvn said:
Indeed. I worked summers in a grain elevator and later in a feed mill. The elevator never had dust collection and the feed mill finally added it in the later years that I worked there. Of course, smoking was far more common then and a lot of the workers smoked constantly. I'm sure the cigarette filters were really helping! ;)

Craig
Click to expand...
Ha ha we used to joke with a coworker that was a heavy smoker in the office that we had to go out in the elevator to get some fresh air. It's amazing what our bodies put up with sometimes eh?
 
Ha I have always rolled my cigarettes I somehow got the idea that the filter wasn’t good to inhale through then they came out with the asbestosis reports, did it help I don’t know as I have Copd but my Brother is on Oxygen.
 
To be honest, I guess I never read enough to see him selling products.
I saw mostly design pics and such of what a person can build.
Maybe I've just forgotten his sales side, it's a huge amount of information and I read it awhile ago.
Either way, I felt his info made sense to me, as I worked a lot with breathing air for noxious gas.
But to be clear, I'm not endorsing anything he is selling or suggesting you buy. I'm only passing on some information I found interesting.
And I don't argue about the subject, I haven't worn masks too many times to remember over the years, from grain dust to H2S and most things in between. Only reason we wore masks at all farming was because dad and I had asthma and allergies. Adults can pretty much do what they want as long as others aren't being hurt IMO.But I do believe protecting your lungs and body is something that should be taught to younger people.
I know it wasn't really ever talked about by people working at home or in industry in my life, and I'm not quite 50 yet. Quickly going on 90..... By how I feel most mornings, anyway !!
Ken
 
I've read that before. Overall I'm inclinded to agree with him and note that while he might be conflicted, almost the entire rest of the industry selling home shop level dust collectors (you know, the cheap cloth bag ones) is conflicted in the other way - i.e. taking the position that their systems aren't a danger. I've got some limited technical exposure to air cleaners (one of our products is a line of wet air scrubbers) and know machines that clean down to a micro are expensive, but they are purchased because the small particles are just as bad. I don't have room for wood working machines so its currently academic, but if I ever do, the dust collector might be the most expensive machine I buy...something like the big, fancy and expensive Felder
 
I built a dust collector using a 3 hp busy bee and cabbaged it into a Bill Penz design. Built it out of 16 gauge, Rolled the cone etc etc. I will post pics of the build tomorrow: this collector works amazing - nothing back in the shop and the filters are 99% Heppa (cheaped out a bit). All items were sourced local and build total was about $500 as I had the old dust collector to take parts from. It is night and day for dust collectIon in the shop.

For metal working I am not sure it would be applicable
 
Brent H,
love to see your design and setup. I want to set up something that works well but won't cost a fortune for my woodworking. I'm looking at using water to filter the fine particles. I need to recirculate the air for many months of the year (as you most likely do as well) to prevent heat loss, so cleaning the air as much as possible is important. I'll look for pics of the design I'm interested in later.
Mcgyver, I look forward to your thoughts on the system since you have fairly direct experience with this subject.
Have a good day
Ken
 
Hey @GummyMonster

Here is the build Ken. It was pretty quick and I used 16 gauge to ensure I could weld the thing up quick - it is a heavy beast but man- awesome! I build cabinet and full kitchens and this unit sucks it all up - no problem running a 24" dual drum sander or cutting MDF - the collection drum gets heavy as it it is mostly wood dust.

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I have more pictures and I am just trying to locate them.
 
That's awesome, thanks.
Here's a link to the water filtration system I'm looking at .
General info - https://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/5386-water-based-dust-collection/
System I want to replicate, possibly incorporate it into something like yours Brent.
- I'll be darned if I can find the page I thought I saved.
But it's basically one of these - https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08J3PTWR3...olid=365DRA6LLP28V&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
- sitting in a bucket about 1/2" to 1" above water, that's the height the fellow found worked best. Better than emersion (think dust water bong ). He has 2 of them inline, and claims to remove virtually all dust particles, even the finest. I'm going to try it like he built, and if it works ok, I'll try using a 45 gallon drum cut in half as a container to give more surface area to catch dust.
Something like your setup with the water system after. Should end up with clean, safe air.
Time will tell.
Ken
 
Has anyone used one of the water systems and compared the before / after humidity readings that are relevant to future rusting of shop tools/machinery?
 
That's a good question Tom. I can't say that I've seen anything about humidity issues with the water filtration. I don't think it's would raise humidity too much, as the air is moving above the water, not stirring it up. Obviously it would add some moisture to the air. The humidity up here is almost always so low that we use humidifiers much of the year, so I don't think it would be an issue. In other locations it may be relevant.
Ken
 
@GummyMonster : make sure your filter can handle a large volume of air flow. You want to be able to carry away as much dust as possible. Typical dust collectors with just the bags only have about 30 sq ft of surface area and really choke the collector. My unit has 2 filters that are really close to Heppa quality and there is about 750 sqft of exhaust surface area. It made a huge difference in air flow and quieted down the machine immensely.
 
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