9x20 lathe DRO or No?

[KeeponDragon]

My eyes aren't as good as they once were, I like shiny things, and I have a penchant for upgrading/modifying my belongings.
So this feeds a few needs lol.
However, does anyone have experience mounting a DRO setup to a 9 x 20 lathe?
Just looking for advice on what might fit the best.
I am also doing some googles to see who might have attempted this
thanks !

 

[DPittman]

I put on the IGaging Absolute DRO on my 10x20 lathe which is very similar to the 920's. I've really liked it and when I did it, it was the only affordable option I knew of at the time. If I were to do it over today I think the full blown DRO displays available from many retailers would be my choice but I believe it would be best to have the ultra slim scales for the cross slide.

 

[gerritv]

I installed an Aikron DRO with glass scales on my 1022. Slim scale on cross slide, on lh side. Z axis is on back of main casting below the cross slide.
My eyes are ok, my hands are not. these are items that will prolong my use of these machines for a long time.

 

[Susquatch]

My eyes aren't as good as they once were, I like shiny things, and I have a penchant for upgrading/modifying my belongings.
So this feeds a few needs lol.
However, does anyone have experience mounting a DRO setup to a 9 x 20 lathe?
Just looking for advice on what might fit the best.
I am also doing some googles to see who might have attempted this
thanks !

I think your only concern should be keeping the cost of the DRO consistent with the value of the machine not whether or not a DRO is a good idea. It's a good idea - PERIOD. If you decide it's a go for your small lathe, I'd get the smallest scales you can get (ultra slim magnetic or perhaps the iGaging style).

I don't have a DRO on my lathe yet but the parts are being gathered. It will prolly happen this coming summer.

 

[Tecnico]

I'm in the process of collecting info to do the job on my mill and lathe. If you go to the (Aikron SIte) site (you will find good documentation on their offerings, including dimensional drawings and pricing. If you go to Ditron's web site (Ditrom Web Site) you will find dimensional drawings but no pricing, you will have to sift through their Aliexpress site for that. FYI, the DC10 is 5u (micron) resolution and the DC11 is 1u but the difference in resolution is not well stated on the Aliex pages.

Both have glass and magnetic in different sizes and magnetic is priced higher. Aikron lists lower pricing but you pay for shipping, I haven't reached the point of a rolled up pricing yet so I don't know what the final bottom line is.

If the price were the same I'd go Aikron just because I'd trust their web site information/ordering more than the Ditron Aliex store because Ditron's Aliex store data is all over the place. Aikron have spent the time and money to put up a proper English language web site that coherently gives you all the options and pricing in one place.

You might benefit by embedding your lathe cross scale in the slide like @Xyphota has done on his Myford Xyphota's Myford Install, I'll be doing that on my Myford. You embed a magnetic tape strip (instead of a "bar") containing the tape in the cross slide and read with the usual mag head.

If you're watching your pennies, 5u scales are probably all you need except for the cross since any inaccuracy will be doubled n the diameter so a 1u might be better. I'm still on the fence but leaning that way, it seems to be the general consensus.

Last, a word on the display panel. Ditron, Aikron etc. offer proprietary panels with about the same features so I don't think there's much to choose from there (owners speak up please), I'm looking at one other option, TouchDRO that runs the software an a generic Android tablet. Their software does everything the proprietary displays do plus ongoing additions requested by users. The other benefit is you can contact the developer on the TouchDRO Page - Hobby Machinist Forum by E-mail.

I see about the same feature set but what I also see is the potential reliability of a high volume Android tablet with a touch screen vs. the proprietary hardware with membrane or snap switches. I have had enough snap switches fail/switch bounce etc. to question reliability of those. Long term supportability/service etc. may be an issue if you need repairs from a Chinese vendor a few years down the road. I trust a tablet to last longer and it's easier to replace a generic Android tablet.

In my case I only operate one machine at a time so I can carry my tablet display between shops from lathe to mill and the only setup change is plugging in the power and switching the Bluetooth to lathe or mill so I save on the cost of one display unit and I can take it to the Den and set up whatever coordinate points I want to work to in the shop.

The jury is still out but there are some details to think about.

@gerritv did you direct order from Aikron's site or were you in contact & perhaps to haggle over price? I see they have a 10% discount until they're back from holidays on 2 Feb. I'm interested to know particularly if they'll talk on shipping cost since Ditron ships "free" (built into price) on Aliex.

D

 

[gerritv]

@gerritv did you direct order from Aikron's site or were you in contact & perhaps to haggle over price? I see they have a 10% discount until they're back from holidays on 2 Feb. I'm interested to know particularly if they'll talk on shipping cost since Ditron ships "free" (built into price) on Aliex.

I chatted back and forth a bit for specific details. They did arrange for lower price on shipping on request. Very responsive via email, and good advice. There are a bunch of machinists on IG who use Aikron, and who I think switched from other brands. I know Stefan G is one of them. It arrived in 2 boxes, one for scales, one for DRO.

I use TouchDRO on my Atlas mill with iGaging scales. It was on my lathe but a variety of irritating issues made me switch. The cost of his board, box and then new scales was marginally less than getting the Aikron. Factored into the decision was 3 years of dealing with irritating TouchDRO ui issues, which are now finally fixed (after installing the Aikron of course). If you build you own interface, then expect spurious reading jumps when you turn on/off main motor. This might be limited to the iGaging scales, they don't like to be grounded.

For the lathe, the Aikron has SDM settings, this allows for setting tip of tool relative to spindle axis. The glass scales have a fixed reference point every 50 mm, you Reference to that on power up, then your tool tips will align repeatably (depending on your qctp etc of course.) E.g my QCTP drill chuck is tool #3, so I set SDM to 3, wind to zero and it is aligned with centre of Z axis. This lets me spot drill and then drill with the carriage. ditto with turning. Of course if the dimension is ritical I will verify but generally it is very close. The variance will be due to my machine, not the scales or DRO.

Gerrit

 

[Tecnico]

I chatted back and forth a bit for specific details. They did arrange for lower price on shipping on request. Very responsive via email, and good advice. There are a bunch of machinists on IG who use Aikron, and who I think switched from other brands. I know Stefan G is one of them. It arrived in 2 boxes, one for scales, one for DRO.

I use TouchDRO on my Atlas mill with iGaging scales. It was on my lathe but a variety of irritating issues made me switch. The cost of his board, box and then new scales was marginally less than getting the Aikron. Factored into the decision was 3 years of dealing with irritating TouchDRO ui issues, which are now finally fixed (after installing the Aikron of course). If you build you own interface, then expect spurious reading jumps when you turn on/off main motor. This might be limited to the iGaging scales, they don't like to be grounded.

Gerrit

@gerritv Thanks for your comments.

I have seen comments about how the iGaging capacitive scales are challenging at times and Yuriy of TouchDRO seems to lean toward glass/Mag scales an that's the way I'm leaning as well. I'm fairly tempted to go with his PC board & through hole component kit vs a fully assembled or totally DIY version. It's a cost balance that avoids having to design the circuit and upload firmware etc.

Just a caution to those using the TouchDRO on a Samsung tablet, Samsung have broken the Bluetooth interface in OS 12 & 13 so don't upgrade from OS11 or below or you're advised to buy a tablet from other makers until they fix it. See the TouchDRO site for details.

D

 

[gerritv]

Kindle's are good value. Just turn off wifi once you are set up, avoids irritating Amazon ads etc.

 

[Susquatch]

If you go to Ditron's web site (Ditrom Web Site) you will find dimensional drawings but no pricing, you will have to sift through their Aliexpress site for that.

Hey @Tecnico & @KeeponDragon

I recently discovered that Ditron has an Amazon Canada store. The prices appear to be essentially the same as their Ali store in Canadian dollars. The sales person on Amazon is different than the one I dealt with on Ali. Both are quite responsive but I like the feel of the Amazon security blanket over the Ali one. You can haggle on both and they handle it the same way - what you order is different from what you get. I think they just find something the same price as you want, you order it, and they ship what you agreed on. No idea how Amazon would treat that, but I have to say that I trust them to do right by you. I read recently in one of the reviews how they replaced some parts well beyond warranty.

I'm not saying that Ditron is better than Aikron. Just that I like my Ditron, they have treated me well, and their reviews suggest I am not alone.

 

[Tecnico]

@Susquatch I didn't know about the Amazon store I'll have to check it out. I can't say Aikron or Ditron have better equipment or customer service, I just like the Aikron straightforward web site, less confused than Ditron. Probably the hardware is the same under the sticker!

I'm not ready to buy yet but I'm very interested to find out what can be achieved by haggling with Ditron, that's coming up on the agenda. My goal: Get the scales I need for the lowest price - as long as I get what I need. Interesting that you order different than what you get......

Brings to mind:

"You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you'll find
You get what you need"

I'm getting good mileage out of that quote lately, I think this is going to be an interesting journey.

D

P.S. @KeeponDragon Sorry for the thread creep (hijack?) I think & hope it's useful for you too!

 

[Susquatch]

Interesting that you order different than what you get......

Ya, it's an interesting world they live in. I found the same principles applied in the market shops in China.

That's why you start haggling with something less than you want. After you have a price, then complain about price but up what you want.

Eg start with 2 Axis magnetic.

Then ask about 3 Axis, then slim magnetic, then with RPM.

They can't change the price very easily, but they can change what gets shipped. So after all the haggling, you order and pay for the two axis magnetic and they ship you the 3 Axis, slim, with RPM. Or however it ends up.

I also think timing matters. End of month and end of quarter are big performance pushes for them. I plan to order my lathe DRO at the end of March. If it doesn't work out, I'll try again at the end of June.

I instinctively feel that the options (scale type, extra axis, RPM) are almost zero cost to the manufacturer so they have lots of room to move to meet their sales quotas or goals.

I like what @Dabbler said once. The best deal is the one where both parties are happy with the outcome.

I don't think they would screw you if you keep screen shots of the dialog. They would NEVER want you to show that to Ali.

Ps - I do love your quote......

 

[Former Member]

To be fair whether I (or anyone else) thinks its a good idea or not doesn't matter as there are pro's and con's to adding the DRO.

The main question becomes in your case do the pro's (ie making it easier to read the scales) out weight the con's (possible reduction on range of motion). At that point the answer is simple.

In your case it sounds like it favours the pro's at more than one level. So go for it.

 

[Tecnico]

Hey, @Susquatch I just came from the Ditron Amazon.ca store and the prices I found are not the same as AliEx, they're 'way higher. I'm not calling you out, it's just that something doesn't add up for me.

Maybe I'm not looking at it right but Amazon for a STD glass scale, 500 - 800 mm inc. shipping ($40) but not tax is $320 and on AliEx it is $152 (Free Shipping) and I've never paid tax from AliEx. Ditron Model number is not well defined but it looks like D10. BTW, this scale is $91 on Aikron's site, shipping about $40 - FedEx.

Same length STD size magnetic on Amazon: $363! On AliEx $226

I'll still hit them up for a quote but that wasn't a turn I was expecting!

"It's never easy" - Dylan Hunt

D

 

[gerritv]

Why would you expect selling through Amazon not to come with a premium?They charge ?% to seller for using their site, which gets passed to you. the only time to use Amazon IMHO is when you can't wait for something to arrive. It is seldom less expensive than elsewhere in my experience.

Re: Ditron, when I was looking for glass scales, I passed on Ditron because quite frankly nothing on their Ali or Ama sites made any sense whatsoever.

 

[Susquatch]

Hey, @Susquatch I just came from the Ditron Amazon.ca store and the prices I found are not the same as AliEx, they're 'way higher. I'm not calling you out, it's just that something doesn't add up for me.

Maybe I'm not looking at it right but Amazon for a STD glass scale, 500 - 800 mm inc. shipping ($40) but not tax is $320 and on AliEx it is $152 (Free Shipping) and I've never paid tax from AliEx. Ditron Model number is not well defined but it looks like D10. BTW, this scale is $91 on Aikron's site, shipping about $40 - FedEx.

Same length STD size magnetic on Amazon: $363! On AliEx $226

I'll still hit them up for a quote but that wasn't a turn I was expecting!

"It's never easy" - Dylan Hunt

D

I can't explain all that. But some maybe.

Are the prices on Ali itself in US dollars? They were for me until I setup my location and preferred currency. They sometimes revert back but logging out and back in usually fixes it. Be prepared for them to switch you to Russian or Japanese or French language too...... Ahhhhh!

Yes, no taxes from China. Then it lands in Canada. FedEx brokers it. Then you pay taxes plus a brokerage fee you didn't expect or they won't release it. You are gunna pay taxes plus.

That's what happened to me. I have no idea other than currency why you prices are different. Anyway, does that really matter? You are not gunna pay sticker.

One word of advice though. They talk to each other, I know that because the woman here mentioned that the woman in China had told her I was a very nice man. They were both very good to me so I can't complain. Just be careful not to play them against each other or to tell them each different stories.

My plan for my lathe is to buy from Amazon. I will see how that goes when the day comes.

Although the Aikron might be just as good or even better, I'm still gunna try to get a Ditron D80 for my lathe because I'd like it to be the same as my mill.

That would not stop me from haggling between the two different brands though. That might be a good advantage.

I should add here that Ditron would sell me a magnetic strip, but not at a price I was willing to pay. Aikron has them right on their website.

Then @Xyphota rescued me!

 

[KeeponDragon]

P.S. @KeeponDragon Sorry for the thread creep (hijack?) I think & hope it's useful for you too!

Nothing to apologize for. I'm honestly up to my arse in information now. And I'm good with that. I have options and suggestions. From people in real time. Not a google search.

 

[Susquatch]

From people in real time. Not a google search.

Ain't that the truth! Google is WAAAAY more likely to feed you total crap too. In my humble opinion, the only thing worse is YouTube. I love the forum. The depth and breadth of the members knowledge and experience is simply amazing!

 

[Tecnico]

I can't explain all that. But some maybe.

Are the prices on Ali itself in US dollars? They were for me until I setup my location and preferred currency. They sometimes revert back but logging out and back in usually fixes it. Be prepared for them to switch you to Russian or Japanese or French language too...... Ahhhhh!

Yes, no taxes from China. Then it lands in Canada. FedEx brokers it. Then you pay taxes plus a brokerage fee you didn't expect or they won't release it. You are gunna pay taxes plus.

That's what happened to me. I have no idea other than currency why you prices are different. Anyway, does that really matter? You are not gunna pay sticker.

One word of advice though. They talk to each other, I know that because the woman here mentioned that the woman in China had told her I was a very nice man. They were both very good to me so I can't complain. Just be careful not to play them against each other or to tell them each different stories.

My plan for my lathe is to buy from Amazon. I will see how that goes when the day comes.

Although the Aikron might be just as good or even better, I'm still gunna try to get a Ditron D80 for my lathe because I'd like it to be the same as my mill.

That would not stop me from haggling between the two different brands though. That might be a good advantage.

I should add here that Ditron would sell me a magnetic strip, but not at a price I was willing to pay. Aikron has them right on their website.

Then @Xyphota rescued me!

As a distributor to Amazon I'd expect sellers like Ditron to give Amazon wholesale or at least marked down prices so they can make margin. I go to Amazon about last because they're frequently more expensive.

The Aliex prices are in $CDN, and I have been offered Rubles also! The thing about tax on the Ditron shipment is that it's larger than the typical cheap thing I've bought on Aliex and it's being shipped by a brand name courier so it's above board, not declared as a gift. I fully expect anything shipped by courier would attract tax and the whole duty and brokerage thing. I don't pay brokerage, I clear things myself so the couriers can look elsewhere for that profit center!

Since it will come by courier whoever it comes from I expect to give Canada tax money, saying more would be a contravention of the forum rules.

When you're looking at buying your magnetic read head for the lathe check Aikron, their price is better than what I could find for Ditron. You probably know you need the head and strip to have the same resolution. The head's data protocol should be compatable but that's another item to verify.

You talked to Ditron in China and Canada or do you mean Amazon?

@gerritv I agree, the Ditron sites leave something to be desired!

D

 

[Tecnico]

Nothing to apologize for. I'm honestly up to my arse in information now. And I'm good with that. I have options and suggestions. From people in real time. Not a google search.

Good! I was hoping the discussion would be widely useful.

It's certainly useful for me.

D

 

[Susquatch]

As a distributor to Amazon I'd expect sellers like Ditron to give Amazon wholesale or at least marked down prices so they can make margin. I go to Amazon about last because they're frequently more expensive.

For those outfits that have a store on Amazon, I don't think they do the wholesale or markdown thing.

I think Amazon gets a percent. The sellers set the price. I say this because for many (eg a lot of accusize stuff) the price is the same.

The Aliex prices are in $CDN, and I have been offered Rubles also! The thing about tax on the Ditron shipment is that it's larger than the typical cheap thing I've bought on Aliex and it's being shipped by a brand name courier so it's above board, not declared as a gift. I fully expect anything shipped by courier would attract tax and the whole duty and brokerage thing. I don't pay brokerage, I clear things myself so the couriers can look elsewhere for that profit center!

Yup. I think that's how it goes and I expect that too. You had said earlier that Ali prices were better because there was no tax, hence my discussion of tax.

Ditron seems to use FedEx. How do you broker yourself with FedEx? Can you point me to a description of how this works?

When you're looking at buying your magnetic read head for the lathe check Aikron, their price is better than what I could find for Ditron.

I agree. However that's not how it worked out in the end. I started out asking for three 5 micron regular size scales, but after negotiating, they shipped me for 1 micron slim scales for the same price which was then less than Aikron.

You probably know you need the head and strip to have the same resolution. The head's data protocol should be compatable but that's another item to verify.

There is something going on here that I don't understand. My Ditron scales and read heads are 1 micron. But the strip that @Xyphota sent me is 5 micron.

Because nobody told me otherwise or that it wouldn't work, I simply laid the 5 micron scale on my mill table and used my 1 micron read head from my quill to see if it would work or if I would need to order a 5 micron head. I was flabbergasted to discover that setting my display unit to 1/2 micron resulted in a perfect output. Here is a link to that discovery. I recommend reading it.

Post in thread 'Lathe DRO' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/lathe-dro.6093/post-94556

I don't understand yet how this worked. But it did.

You talked to Ditron in China and Canada or do you mean Amazon?

Nope, I mean Ditron for both. When you use the amazon contact feature, you get the Ditron store staff. I don't know for sure where they are located though. They both use the same sort of colloquial chat (yes dear, you are so sweet, etc) but the amazon contact communicates on our time zone window. The Ali contact communications are delayed to China time. The Amazon contact might work midnights in China or be located here in North America. I don't know which and I didn't ask.

@gerritv I agree, the Ditron sites leave something to be desired!

D

The Amazon Ditron site is better.

All Ali sites in general suck IMHO. That whole Colour and size thing drives me nuts. To me it looks like Ali was set up to sell clothing and other things have to be jury rigged to work in that model.

WHAT A CRAZY WORLD WE LIVE IN!!!